04-18-2014, 02:23 PM
Like I said if Patrick ever comes back (less than 50% likely IMO, but if it happens) it wont be next season and it will be with a new technical coach. He is not a fool. He knows moving forward he needs to improve technically again, and on no planet will that happen with ice dance and choreography expert Johnson. As he will have atleast a year away he will have more time to assess how the competition is fareing and mulling over his options what a plan of attack is moving forward. It is very likely this new coach would be able to atleast attempt fixing his triple axel, if that is even possible at this stage, something which Johnson never would have been able to do.
04-18-2014, 02:48 PM
I realise that occasional mistakes will happen, but for what reasons will a skater really 'lose' a jump? I'm curious because, as a very much non-expert, I would have thought 'muscle memory' would help so much after doing a jump as often as these guys will have done.
04-18-2014, 03:18 PM
He should move more jumps and combos to the second half of the program if he wants to beat Hanyu.
Originally Posted by Sandpiper
04-18-2014, 03:19 PM
Ah, ok, thanks. That makes sense.
04-18-2014, 04:05 PM
Another 3A question: taking off a clean edge (Chan) vs skidding (most skaters, apparently)
I've gotten the picture that if you launch into your A off a clean edge, your margin of technique error at the take off is even smaller than otherwise (skidding allows a bit more control of your edge as you launch, or something?). Am I off base here, or is Chan-style axel take off somehow inherently more prone to the muscle memory related problems discussed above?
For some reason, this axel take off thing bugs me and googling didn't give me an answer...
04-18-2014, 06:50 PM
I have a feeling he is going through a hard time right now; the let down of the olympics, literally losing the gold and being so close and arguably, I know many disagree, not getting credit for his skating skills comparatively to others. He also may be thinking of his future and making a living skating is not easy. I do hope he returns. Many including myself think his downfall was going with Johnson - I am not sure why he woud do such a thing. Young and stupid? Whatever the reason he needed a technical coach. I think that is what really cost him the gold. Someone who knew how to be competitive and work on the jumps and conditioning especially the axel (that means NOT Joanne Macleod obviously). His stubbornness was costly I think. Johnson isn't even good or expeienced at doing competitive eedge things.
04-18-2014, 07:02 PM
Takahashi's "focus on artistry" has nothing to do with his deteriorating jumps, it was injuries. Let's face it--his jumps were never quite the same as they were after he tore his ACL. Aside from the torn ACL thing (which probably makes him more susceptible to injury on that knee), Takahashi's age definitely makes him more prone to injuries....this season alone, he's incurred multiple injuries, including injuries to his right leg before the GPF, and a knee injury before Worlds. All those injuries not only cut into training time, but add up and affect the quality of his jumps.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
04-18-2014, 11:17 PM
After missing all her jumps in the LP at 2000 Worlds, she began to work with a sports psychologist to also help her deal with the mental hangups she was having with her jumps and to deal with the pressure of the competitive situation. Then in the following season Sale & Pelletier made the controversial decision to leave Richard Gauthier in Montreal and move to Alberta where they felt Jamie would feel better back in her home province and comfort zone. Perhaps some of these decisions had an effect, because by the time of the 2002 Olympics she was able to land all of her jumps.
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
04-20-2014, 06:55 AM
To Canadian Skater Guy
Thank you very much, Canadian Skater Guy, for expressing interest and respect for Patrick Chan. I, as another Canadian, but living overseas, cannot but remind you and other Patrick fans, that the most important item in all these discussions, whether the talent will continue skating or not, is not brought up at all. FINANCIAL ECONOMICS will be the decisive factor to whether the talent will compete or not. The last year has been tough, tougher than the former years, as the cost of maintaining coaching staff and technical input was always expensive. To the point that an expert skating coach was discarded, in return for a non-skating modern dance coach.
So, if Patrick is to improve on his axel triples, or quads?! (There cannot be an axel quad, since an axell is one and half revolution already, two turns means a triple, and another axel revolution would mean 4 and a half revolution, right?) an expert skating coach has to be hired. And that is a big stumbling block, to Patrick Chan's pocket book and his parents', too.
So, if anyone is interested and want to see the man compete, with necessary improvement, to make it a credible fight, with the up and rising young Japanese stars and others, a fund rasing or financial income method has to be introduced to the Chan clan, and not only fund raising dinners, either, if that has anymore attraction to the Chinese community and Canadian society in general (laugh!). I have a thought, but I will introduce to the interested parties and hopefully, that will solve the ultimate financial problem for Patrick to continue skating, mental willingness beside. Any ideas, anyone?
04-21-2014, 10:15 AM
I don't think it would be a financial issue (after all, there are skaters considerably less prolific than Chan in Canada) rather than a motivation issue. He's proved himself quite admirably, and I don't think just because he doesn't show up at Worlds and skips a season or two, that should be held against him. After all, he did compete and medal in the 5 World Championships prior to that. Like Kim, he could probably skip a season and come back and even be marginally competitive since most skaters will not be able to come close to his level of skating no matter how hard they try. It's whether to continue to get golds that he's already won over and over, just for the heck of it, or pursue things outside of skating (like school), and that's his decision. If anything, by taking time to study, he's setting himself up better for life after skating, and why not, after you've won almost everything there is to win anyways.
04-21-2014, 02:59 PM
You assume, and maybe the assumption will prove to be true, but it seems unlikely his skill level will remain in tact after a year away from competing and certainly over the next four years. Actually, we even saw it this year with the deterioration of his 3 ax. Even though winning an osm is great, I wonder how his confidence has been affected.
04-21-2014, 03:31 PM
Actually his axel this year was more consistent than last season, at least leading up to the Olympics where it let him down. He was 5/8 pre-Olympics on triple axels, which is more than his past seasons and more than quite a few other elite skaters. His technique is relatively poor on his axel and he muscles it around, but it's made up by the fact that he's vastly more consistent on his quads. As skaters like Lambiel have shown, you don't need a solid axel to be competitive if you've got the quads. By his skill level being intact, I'm referring to his quality of skating, which will likely be maintained over the next 4 years so if he ever did decide to return, he would still have the foundation to be somewhat competitive (although who knows what the next 4 years will bring).
Originally Posted by Icey
04-22-2014, 01:02 AM
The world never stays put for any second or minute, its up to the competitor to keep advancing, and introducing new elements into his or her program.
Patrick's program were perfect, according to his skill level, but other compeitiors' certainly will add somethnig newer, something more difficult, to win.
If you think Patrick can retire, study, spend all his time and money on university,without skating once a while, and hiring an knowledgeable coach (not a non-skating coach, again) to help him improve on his short comings, and add to his better moves, and come back to competitive skating, expecting the others guys to stand pat, on their hands, to wait and skate against him, you are dreaming!
04-22-2014, 01:08 AM
Tung, you seem to be very well-informed about the niceties of Chan's career and life, so I was wondering if you could tell us exactly why Patrick decided to hire Kathy Johnson with her lack of substantive skating background as his coach for the most important season of his career? Most people seem to think it's because Kathy Johnson is his girlfriend's mother, but do you know if there's any other (perhaps more substantive) reasons?
04-22-2014, 01:12 AM
My suggestion is that he go to university, register and study, alright! But their are long breaks in between, Christmas/new year, Skiing week, March break, long summer holidays (assuming he is not taking a co-op course, with no gaps in between, typical U of T university courses) which he can use for his skating activities. He can even get financial returns by coaching/performing/guest appearing, coaching for commercial operations, most probably outside of Canada (Canada has no commercial rinks, therefore no ISI system, this is also one of the reason why men's skating is better? than other countries, Japan excepted, for all skating is under and follow the higher ISU standard, instead of the diluted ISI program for the amateurs, in other countries).considering that the Canadian public is not amourous with Patrick right now, and believe that he choked in Sochii.