Wow what's going on here? Yuna's and Mao's programs are so different, what is the point of saying one's program is harder than the other? Yuna and Mao both won't easily do each other's programs, and the important thing is that they both did the best they could, please have some repect. 'The program harder than any other program' 'Mao can easily achieve Yuna's program while Yuna can't with Mao's' God this is so rude.
What held back Asada's PCS?
- Thread starter tokugawaice
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I totally agree. All programs are different and all skaters are different. It's the diversity that makes figure skating all the more interesting and enjoyable to everyone.
Well, you know, os168 started saying that Yuna program was so difficult that Mao and carolina never could to do it. As saying Mao and caro's programs are easy and Yuna did a very sophisticated and very complex program. I was only responding to that. But I did not see you complaining about that comment :sarcasm:
Yes I did, I saw he/she saying that Yuna's program is much harder than any other skater's programs and I think I've mentioned it in my post. If you're still dissatisfied, I'll say it again, each skaters have their own unique skills, and I think it's wrong to just say one's program is hard and one isn't. Anyway if you respond in same way whether you're just backing up or not, you don't seem so different from os168 either.
Ok,you are right, but there are a lot of people reading this, I think more people after olympic games, when I started to read figure skating forums, I believed a lot of ridiculous things that posters said, because I did not knew anything, so, maybe some people could to believe about os168 said.Yes I did, I saw he/she saying that Yuna's program is much harder than any other skater's programs and I think I've mentioned it in my post. If you're still dissatisfied, I'll say it again, each skaters have their own unique skills, and I think it's wrong to just say one's program is hard and one isn't. Anyway if you respond in same way whether you're just backing up or not, you don't seem so different from os168 either.
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- Mar 5, 2014
I mentioned in another thread about comparing Lipnitiskaya's scores at worlds (207) to Kim's and Mao's past scores, but I wanted to know what people think about it here, since this is the most active thread about Mao. I think that Lipnitskaya deserved second (with a lower score, then Kostner, Anna and Akiko battling for bronze) and that she is an exceptional skater who displays a high degree of artistry and technical skill for her age, but I don't think she is at the same level as Mao and Kim. Compared to them, I think she doesn't hold her positions long enough, she is behind them in her sense of musicality and step sequences, and her GOE's on her jumps seem too high because they lack great height and she hunches slightly going in and out of them. To a lesser degree, her GOEs on spins seem a little too high to me because even though they are excellent, I don't think she should score higher than Mao because Mao's spins seem just as good to me. Finally, I think Lipnitskaya's expression and arm movements, while quite good, still seem a little too overwrought and rapid, not quite natural enough for a really high PCS score. Do you think Lip's PCS of 67 or 68 is the right level? Where do you think Lip stands in comparison to Kim, Kostner and Asada: strengths and weaknesses, especially Asada, since she is the most likely to continue skating?
Also, what do you think about Lipnitskaya (15) receiving a 207 at Worlds outside of Russia with a fall in her LP? This is the same score as Kim's world record score in 2009 at 18 years of age; and a score that Mao was only able to obtain for the first time at the NHK trophy last year in 2013 at 23 years of age. Is she really as good as Kim was at 18 or as good as Asada was at the NHK trophy in 2013 at 23, and better than Asada was for almost her entire career? I don't think she is, so I think her scores are inflated for the reasons listed above, but I wanted to know what others thought. For example, Lipnitskaya's PCS at Worlds was also about 5 to 6 points higher with a fall than Mao's when she won Worlds with Bells of Moscow in 2010, and this was a compelling clean performance that many at youtube including myself have praised for its consummate artistry and interpretation.
Some have said that all scores are higher now compared to 2009, but I think Mao's 216.69 at Worlds was hard earned and deserved (if anything a little stingy) and that it would have beaten Kim (207) in 2009 given the technical difficulty she successfully executed, her mature artistry and the unprecedented speed (for her), faster spins, and timing to the music she displayed in her LP performance (even with the mistake), which shouldn't effect PCS anyway. Of course, Kim is also better and more mature than in 2009, so her higher scores are justified, but even Kim has only scored over 220 one time internationally at Vancouver in 2010. Therefore, I think there is no score inflation for Kim or Asada now relative to 2009.
To me, Lipnitskaya's score also seems inflated compared to Murakami or Suzuki, but not Gold (who also seemed to be a little inflated at Worlds compared to Murakami and Suzuki or even the other Americans). What do you think? Were the scores and placements at Worlds all justified in your mind? Finally, how would you compare Lipnitskaya's to Asada's speed in the Worlds LP?
Also, what do you think about Lipnitskaya (15) receiving a 207 at Worlds outside of Russia with a fall in her LP? This is the same score as Kim's world record score in 2009 at 18 years of age; and a score that Mao was only able to obtain for the first time at the NHK trophy last year in 2013 at 23 years of age. Is she really as good as Kim was at 18 or as good as Asada was at the NHK trophy in 2013 at 23, and better than Asada was for almost her entire career? I don't think she is, so I think her scores are inflated for the reasons listed above, but I wanted to know what others thought. For example, Lipnitskaya's PCS at Worlds was also about 5 to 6 points higher with a fall than Mao's when she won Worlds with Bells of Moscow in 2010, and this was a compelling clean performance that many at youtube including myself have praised for its consummate artistry and interpretation.
Some have said that all scores are higher now compared to 2009, but I think Mao's 216.69 at Worlds was hard earned and deserved (if anything a little stingy) and that it would have beaten Kim (207) in 2009 given the technical difficulty she successfully executed, her mature artistry and the unprecedented speed (for her), faster spins, and timing to the music she displayed in her LP performance (even with the mistake), which shouldn't effect PCS anyway. Of course, Kim is also better and more mature than in 2009, so her higher scores are justified, but even Kim has only scored over 220 one time internationally at Vancouver in 2010. Therefore, I think there is no score inflation for Kim or Asada now relative to 2009.
To me, Lipnitskaya's score also seems inflated compared to Murakami or Suzuki, but not Gold (who also seemed to be a little inflated at Worlds compared to Murakami and Suzuki or even the other Americans). What do you think? Were the scores and placements at Worlds all justified in your mind? Finally, how would you compare Lipnitskaya's to Asada's speed in the Worlds LP?
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- Dec 22, 2012
Yes. Very inflated. She started the season with normal scores, when the judges saw her consistency, her scores started increasing. Her scores are out control. She is very good, but her scores are inflated. Lesson to newbies if you are consistent the judges will reward with PCS scores on par with Mao, Caro and Yuna
I agree with your statement of Yulia's flaws, but that's acceptable to me, because currently, young skaters of her level more or less have some flaws.
But what really bugged me the most about Yulia is that she does not listen to music. And musicality is something I think usually innate and hard to learn. But it is essential for figure skating presentation, at least for me.
I think her presentation is levels lower than Caro or Mao who perhaps will still compete in the future. And in my book, she did not deserve her currently PCS.
But what really bugged me the most about Yulia is that she does not listen to music. And musicality is something I think usually innate and hard to learn. But it is essential for figure skating presentation, at least for me.
I think her presentation is levels lower than Caro or Mao who perhaps will still compete in the future. And in my book, she did not deserve her currently PCS.
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- Apr 2, 2014
This is not 6.0. You don't get brownie points for trying in IJS. You get points based on what you complete.
If the Axel is UR or Pre-Rotated too far, it gets downgraded. That's the way it goes.
The judges should be as strict on her 3A as they are on any other jump. How difficult a jump is should not affect how harsh they are on the calls. They aren't forcing her to compete that, she is choosing to do it, because she hasn't managed to fix her Flutz or Consistently get her 3/3 around.
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- Apr 2, 2014
I don't think she'll be doing Triple Axels in 4 years.
And it will be impossible for Asada to win with 4 triples even with a huge PCS boost because the difference in BV between a 4 and 7 triple program, when other skaters are doing Level 4 +2-3 GOE spins is just too much to overcome. She will need to skate at her Sochi form (without the splatfest SP) to have a chance to get on the Podium. By the time 2018 rolls around, there will be a whole new crop of skaters with IJS-optimized programs
And I doubt anyone was paid for the Sochi games, and I really doubt there was any fix. You have to be rather ignorant to believe that to be true.
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- Mar 23, 2010
So the answer is a firm 'NO' then. I shall try my best not to cry a river...
Still bitter I see CarneAsada, it is fine... let it all out... vent out your post Sochi angst... I wouldn't expect anything less. The thing about you CarneAsada is you are continuing to take different opinions way too personally, while I am merely interested in discussions or even a nice ole debate now and then.
Ha ha. Funny you should talk about pettiness when in the fall, you were popping up in every thread to post tirades against Asada and the JSF because you were so terrified that she might actually win something in Sochi. I guess you got your wish when she bombed so horribly in the SP. Too bad you forgot to jinx Adelina!
Incorrect. I have never believed in jinx because I believe in karma.
However seeing that you clearly believes in jinx, no wonder you were saying that Yuna can't lose with your hypothetical 99.6% projections, wow talking about having a vindictive mindset. I honestly don't know why you'd think I'd be terrified, I have lived through terrorist attacks, tiger mums/aunts/grans, this is only figure skating dear girl, perhaps you are talking about yourself? My views have at least been consistent since the very beginning. I have always maintained that had Mao succeed in 8 triples programs with no UR, and no flutz, 3A and Yuna went perfect Mao deserve to win, it is a sport after all. I have always said 3A is undervalued but do have a problem when the Mao rule (3A as a single and not a combo) that overwhelming changed the entire lady field in a 'technical requirement' program that greatly advantage only a skater. ESPECIALLY she is someone who have PROVEN to have problems with landing clean 3/3s and who proved to be a flutzer to make this rule unfair and entirely biased. I have no invested interest or let alone awareness of either skaters before Vancouver. The skaters of my life at that point were simply Michelle Kwan, Kurt Browning, Torville and Dean, and maybe Katerina Witt because she is the most famous ladies champion at the Olympics. So you keep accuse me of being terrified of Mao winning at Sochi is clearly more about you projecting your own insecurity onto a suppose enemy - such a pattern with you.
For the record, I have always been very critical of the politics in this sport, score manipulation made possible by COP, it is not just to do with Mao. Just like I don't have any problem with any skaters personally for unfair judging. I have always squarely blamed on the system, the judges and in particularly the governance of this sport failure to make this sport a fair one for everybody. One of the reason I have never liked Adelina's skating was due to her score always felt artificial, clearly more favored at home, and I just never like her programs, indelicate styles or the way she finish her moves. A program is huge part of why I'd appreciate a skater, vs merely a talented skater. I detest artificial score manipulation through PCS, win by PCS by home advantages, federation politics that affect skaters ranking contrary to what they delivered. The very worst I am guilty of is a fan with strong opinions on what I like and dislike. Surely even Mao's biggest uber can't deny how great many rule changes after Vancouver that directly favour Mao more than any other as well directly disadvantage her greatest rival? In hind side, maybe I have given JSF for too much credit back then, when Russia had enough 'players' and 'interests' as well as 'motivation' to influence the directions of this sport. Having considered who's in charge of the technical committee that simply announced the Mao rule instead of going through a federation voting process, I was simply naive.
That's not talking about them doing each other's programs at all, is it? Another thing: while we're busy correcting each other's spelling, it's Yin （陰） and Yang （陽） unless you're referring to Yuna and Mao as a nutritious pair (yingyang). As a fellow Taiwanese, I am disappointed in you.
Imagine my utter shock and horror to find you disappointed in me... But since you want to play, I could also be talking about Yin 赢 (Yu-na), Yan 殃 (Rhymes with Mao at least)
Oh please!! Are all Carmens the same?! A real connoisseur should be knowledgeable and observant enough to differentiate beyond the labels and actually recognize it is not what they do, but how they do it.
How the skater make it uniquely their own, different than others, different than from their previous, why, what and how beyond point scoring. Qualities behind the movements, details, nuances, true understanding behind the music intentions, the rise and falls of movements to the music, snap, pauses, sentiments as evolution of higher learning, higher realization of both art and sport.
You, who I at least used to respect as a music aficionado really think this particular choice and edit of Adios is simple to skate to compare with other more populist and romanticized version of Adios? With these particular set of choreographed movements that require immaculate timings including the jumps? In a long program?
As someone who used to frequently dance recitals at Sadler's wells in London, Ronnie Scott jazz club in Soho, Club 606 for Jazz in Chelsea as well as Royal Festival hall for Jazz festivals. Being among of the few thousands who got to see the rare staging of a Piazzolla Tango Opera in London back in the year 2000 etc.. is it at all possible I may have different opinions than the average Joe/Jane on figure skating boards? I have dance history ( Ballet, Asian folk dancing, Salsa). i play multiple instruments (Piano, Chinese Viola Er Hu, Guitar, Violin... not sure if you count Harmonica, Chinese flute, large scale Electrical Organs as proper instruments, but I dabbled.) I can compose, improvise and can play by ear (decent not great. Good enough to play Schindler's list and Nyman's The Piano by ear having heard it once and then replicate on the piano hours later about 70% accuracy with own arrangement and enhancement. Same as most of Joe Hisashi's OST (more like 81%) because he does write the most memorable lyrical easy to remember haunting melodies. I have formal accreditation/certification in music by international music boards, and regularly attend live events/concerts (like last night's Royal Philharmonic at Royal Albert Hall playing live accompaniment to Pirates of the Caribbean with the movie screening in the background from beginning to the end credit as if in a live recording of film OSTs... simply amazing and yes I did think about Mirai.) These are just among my hobbies, but cinema and art are actually more of a passion, and in recent years figure skating has became bit of an obsession. So of course someone with my profile do look for certain things in her favourite sport. It is my opinion, I am entitled to it.
I am well aware of the Send in the Clown took on a traditional ladies program. I don't know why you seem to imply I am making it into a negative thing, there's nothing wrong with it, it is what it is, this is a conservative sport. I have even wrote a review about it extensively as a sort of nostalgic tribute to the traditional ladies program of last era and speculate the costume reference to Peggy Fleming. I feel you are squabbling over nothing on views I am not making ie/ put words in my mouth in an attempt to discredit me all too personally instead having a sincere disagreement. Actually, I do consider SITC very different among Yuna's work since she has never done soft and lyrical in her short programs before. Feel free to disagree with that. What has Sending the clown got in common with the likes of Kiss of a Vampire; Giselle; Bond; Danse Macabre; Die Fledermaus; El Tango De Roxanne? In fact what has any of those to do with one another? Oh wait.. you mentioned femme fatale right? Lets see...
Yes genius. Packaging herself as mad girl in torment skating to harsh, unlyrical, unsympathetic, unpopular, unfamiliar music is EXACTLY the sort recommendation to win over judges and general audiences. But wait... think again, these programs were never well received at their first launch were they? Isn't that defies the whole purpose of 'packaging'?! It looks like you are more deluded than your favourite J'accuse. Please seek help to get rid of these unquenchable angst from your imaginary 'Michelle Kwan, Midori Ito, the Virgin Mary, and Jesus rolled into one immaculate woman' enemy. The only enemy is yourself. Learn to let it go.
Based on observations and analysis of the approaches, direction and tactics from most of the top ladies choreography it spoke so much of their focus and priorities. Art don't lie, you can read through the choices, decisions made, the choreography work, performances, expression emphasis from relative to each other and to their own history. It goes to the heart of the matter. It is not whether they CAN do it if they put their heart to it, it is whether they would do it, and have done it under a competitive environment when so much risks are on the line.
Again, I must emphasis, these are views based on what happened, not what could happen or should happen. Theoretically anyone is capable of winning the OGM, but only one wins at the end of the day. Theoretically many elite pianists can 'play' Rach 2, but only 1 of them can be considered the best regardless the prestige of their upbringing and affiliation. The quality of rendition with unique distinctive prerogative, good techniques to spoke through movements, backed up by the consistency, virtuosity, beyond proficiency and as best as it has ever done before, setting a new standard. Knowledgeable and fair judges should able to see beyond prescribed movements for points sake but get to the heart of the matter, the real artistic and technical truth. Technical is not just about any particular clear cut element scoring but about everything else choreographically linked together to form a music rendition. Look, I come on figure skating boards to discuss subjects I am interested in, to put out different views and to learn knowledge to help shaping my own. I am not here to be a diplomat seeking popular opinions or mass consensus. While I respect every skaters are different, have their suited material, I do not agree we can't say who's program is more difficult for what ever reason. This is taking political correctness too far. Particularly there are enough programs with established history and performances for a comparison. An educated observer should able to recognize that regardless of fandom or personal taste. There are reasons why Rach 2 is known as one of the most difficult program pull off by Pianist, so why can't there be the same for anything in figure skating beyond performed elements?
Finally, my post history have always emphasized the importance of music to any choreography work. Choreography are not merely vessels to fulfill tickbox jump elements and levels. It is why I have always emphasized PCS in particular should have different panel of judges who knowledgeable and credible enough to be trusted with the daunting task to mark PCS correctly, to look for ways to award points to programs, not the other way round (judges look to people, mass consensus, peer reviews, history, use as placement holders). Music are not merely pleasantries to make audience feel something, distraction from skater's weakness and hide any flaws and it should absolutely be an integral part of any choreographed program involving physical movement. Any credible artistic competition should not be based on whether some one who picked the most crowd pleasing music/program. No credible artistic or music programs should be judge upon popularity rather than quality. It is very pedestrian in thinking and I simply refuse to accept it.
I enjoyed heated discussions above. Just to change a mood of this thread a little bit, I'll try only comment on Mao without comparing her to anyone as much as possible.
I always wonder, what if Mao did not work with Tarasova.. I'm the one who thinks the Asada-Tarasova combination is the worst match in the ladies skating and Tarasova's programs work against Mao's strength. Tarasova makes great programs but her programs work better for more theatrical skaters such as Yagudin, Cohen, etc. Mao has natural beauty in her skating which is often buried under Tarasova's choreography in my opinion. Just give an example, I do think Mao is overall better skater than Sasha but Sasha's Rach2 program is more impressive than Mao's to me. On the other hand, I cannot think of anyone who can skate to Nocturne like Mao does.
So, what if Mao had stayed with Lori and become Lori's Muse... This is my wild imagination.
I always wonder, what if Mao did not work with Tarasova.. I'm the one who thinks the Asada-Tarasova combination is the worst match in the ladies skating and Tarasova's programs work against Mao's strength. Tarasova makes great programs but her programs work better for more theatrical skaters such as Yagudin, Cohen, etc. Mao has natural beauty in her skating which is often buried under Tarasova's choreography in my opinion. Just give an example, I do think Mao is overall better skater than Sasha but Sasha's Rach2 program is more impressive than Mao's to me. On the other hand, I cannot think of anyone who can skate to Nocturne like Mao does.
So, what if Mao had stayed with Lori and become Lori's Muse... This is my wild imagination.
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- Sep 17, 2011
Actually, I was certain that Yuna would win a second OGM and once again prove that she was the dominant skater of this era, and I wouldn't have minded at all. I was not expecting Carolina to skate clean and definitely not expecting Adelina to land both 7 triples in the LP. So after seeing Yulia's inability to raise her combined score above 215, writing Yuna as the OGM was the easiest prediction of my life. As for your tales of personal survival, congratulations! That doesn't really have anything to do with your habit of posting long tirades leading up to JNats where you became oddly philosophical with regard to 3A attempts.
Would you like me to dig up a few examples to remind you? Prior to Vancouver, I was about as aware of Kim or Asada as you were. And by the way, in Sochi, I thought Yuna deserved the gold, not Adelina, and not even Carolina. But again I must take issue with you saying an 8 triple Mao deserves to win if she doesn't flutz. A hypothetical 8 triple Mao with no URs would deserve to win even with a flutz. Completely discounting the flutz leaves 7 triples without problems, still > 6 triples of lower average BV. It is a sport after all. If Yuna or Yulia had a 4T-3T combination, would I argue against changing the rules so she could attempt it in the SP, even though such a change would only benefit her? No. If a girl had such an insane combination years ahead of everyone else, she should be rewarded for it.Huh. And I never liked Adelina's skating because her choreography was usually unrelated to the music. This season I mostly enjoyed hearing sky_fly talk about about what a headcase she was and respected her for attempting difficult combinations (with her lack of musicality, she was almost like the second coming of Miki Ando; I liked the idea of rooting for both but just didn't enjoy them). Regarding the latter half of that paragraph, even Yuna's biggest uber can't deny how great many rules in Vancouver favored Yuna and disadvantaged Mao. Scott Hamilton at 2009 Worlds said, "I feel the short program limits Mao." He was talking about how she was required to do a 2A in the short. In 2010, everyone was talking about how Yuna's SP advantage shouldn't have been that huge. And before you start, saying "Oh but if Mao just had a proper 3-3 in Vancouver she'd be competitive" is akin to saying "But if Yuna just had a 3Loop in Sochi she could've won."
I'll assume you meant ying and yang this time. Funny. Does that also mean when you called me the "ying to your "yang," you were calling me the 贏 and yourself the 殃?Imagine my utter shock and horror to find you disappointed in me... But since you want to play, I could also be talking about Yin 赢 (Yu-na), Yan 殃 (Rhymes with Mao at least)
Except you'll find I never claimed Yuna's Adios Nonino to be similar to the other versions, or that I think it was easy.
Oh yes, the music to Giselle is so harsh, unlyrical, unsympathetic, unpopular, and unfamiliar. HAHAHA. Kiss of the Vampire fits the bill, but unfortunately you can barely even point out more than how "daring" it is, or any redeeming qualities at all. I actually watched it to her Giselle cut. It barely made a difference and it fit nearly as well. At least when my favorites have terrible programs, I admit it. I think anyone else reading this discussion can tell who is more deluded: the one who insists that there are no parallels between Yuna's Danse Macabre and her Bond Girl, or the one who doesn't and points it out. It's great that you are such a devoted fan, but unfortunately not everyone is going to swallow your AllYouDoIsTalk style panegyrics.
Really, you as a musician think that there can only be one rendition of Rach 2 that is objectively the best? There may be recommended recordings for students, but even those vary according to preference. Like I said, different skaters find different things difficult. The same is true for musicians, as Rachmaninoff himself said that his 3rd concerto "falls more easily to the hand" than his 2nd concerto despite many, many future pianists disagreeing. Different types of difficulty is also why when establishing repertoire for the Indianapolis International Violin Competition, Gingold required a Paganini caprice ("to prove he has fingers"), the second movement of a Mozart concerto ("to prove he is a musician"), and a Bach fugue ("to prove he has a brain"). I could say Mao's Rach 2 was like testing fingers (jumps) while Yuna's Adios Nonino was a test for the brain. I'm feeling magnanimous today, so I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match about difficulty, but as a pianist and a violinist you are probably aware that when pianists and violinists talk difficulty, it is usually fingers > brains or musical subtleties. But if you still want to claim Adios is the most difficult overall, go ahead and entertain me.
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- Dec 22, 2012
I see your point. Just my wild imagination also. I think at first Mao's people brought Mao to Tarasova because lets face it she is a name in the industry and she has choreographed Olympic winning programs, but I think in the process she formed a bond with Mao and vice versa and I have a feeling Mao really enjoys working with Tatiana. I enjoy Sasha Rach 2, but I prefer Mao's step sequence.
The one thing I like about Mao working to with both Lori and Tatiana is that she has two unique programs. Last season her short and LP were opposite and this season she also had two unique programs.
If Mao stays I want her to work with different choreographers. In a way Tatiana is giving Mao some of Sasha Cohen's old programs, maybe she sees some Sasha in Mao
I think Mao should experiment with new coreographers at least in her exhibitions. But The thing is I think Mao really apprciate to Lori and Tatiana as persons not just like coreographers, so may be she doesnt want hurts their a feelings looking for a new coreographer, I dont Know, it is just a idea, seems Mao loves to Lori and Tatiana, and I think The same with Yuna and David.
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- Jun 16, 2010
April Fools is over. Time to wake up to reality.
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- Mar 5, 2014
I am glad that you think that Mao is exceptional in skating to Nocturne and I totally agree with you. It's really interesting to see how her skating has evolved from the 2006-2007 season to the 2013-2014 season with this piece. I really miss the spiral sequences from the earlier performances, but the step sequences, variety of spins and the beautiful flow and her expression on the ice have really improved in the later ones.
However, the reason I feel she is the most impressive and compelling skater is because aside from some COP scoring issues- such as speed, GOE's for high and long jumps, and URs which are secondary to me because they rarely distract from her best performances - I find her to be the most versatile in fully portraying the full spectrum of human emotion from the ethereal innocence of Nocturne and the upbeat playfulness of "I Got Rhythm" to the tragic grandeur of Roch 2 and the sultry angst of Bells of Moscow. I feel her high stakes game of the triple axel, eight triples and level 4 steps and spins fits the heaviness of the Roch pieces, as does her life experiences- losing her mother at such an early age, her long struggle reworking her jumps, and losing her chance to go the Olympics in 2006 because of the stupid age rule, even though Lipnitskaya was able to go at 15. I feel her greatness lies in channeling these setbacks and tragedies into her best performances, so that they tell a personal story which resonates spiritually and emotionally with her audience, as in the Sochi LP, while simultaneously carrying out a high degree of technical content.
Furthermore, if you read the comments on youtube about her Roch pieces, twitter comments, and on this site the list of top 10 performances of all time and the Oscars for the long program, you will find the Roch pieces, particularly Sochi have received the most recognition of any other program. Mao was also the most tweeted athlete in the Olympics because of her Sochi performance and it was nearly unanimously voted the best LP by former Olympic medalists like Elvis Stojko, Tara Lipinski and Johny Weir, as well as former coaches and officials.
Even my mother started to cry last night when she saw her Bells of Moscow at Worlds for the first time, saying how beautiful it was. This one really gets to me too, though I think the Sochi LP is the all time tear jerker. It's interesting that when the audience called for an encore during Mao's gala at Worlds in Japan, it is her step sequence in Roch 2 that they longed to see.
There is also the issue of performance in terms of judging on the big scene such as the Olympics and Worlds. Mao's downfall came not with the Roch 2 piece but with Nocturne in the Olympics. Maybe this is just chance. But, it is also true that her all-time high PCS score came not with her world record Nocturne performance- 35.8 which would scale to a 71.6 in the long, but with her Roch 2 performance at Worlds- 72.76. After watching it in HD, I quickly noticed that her overall speed, the rapid revolutions on her spins, and her timing with the music were the best I had ever seen her do, even compared to Sochi. She was literally chasing gold, particularly after her double axel step out. Furthermore, her three highest long program scores have all come this season from her Roch 2 performances at NHK, the Olympics and Worlds, and many have said that the last two were low-balled in either PCS or tech scores. Therefore, I feel that she gains more artistic recognition, a greater fan base and even benefit from the judges for performing these dramatically heavy pieces. Finally, I think these heavy, dramatic pieces bring out Mao's fighter instinct that she is so famed and beloved for, which I think drives her to succeed more. Finally as youtube, former skaters, twitter, and comments on this site have shown, many people believe that she portrays tragic grandeur better than any other current female skater.
However as your objections show, a taste for a figure skating program is very subjective because it is based on artistic appreciation which varies greatly from person to person based on perceptions of beauty, personal experiences and even cultural context. For example, Asada has always struck me as more of an eastern style skater than Yuna Kim. In this sense, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there is no rational way, nor should there be, from swaying someone away from their view. Scores and rational explanations for victory have their place, but it certainly isn't the main reason I watch the sport.
