Gold standard in men's skating | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Gold standard in men's skating

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I'd have Kulik at least above Plushenko. The 06' version of Plushenko's LP was so watered down and that performance was just him mentally running down the clock cause no one else stood a chance.

Plushenko's program may have been watered down but he still had more expression than Kulik, a strong footwork sequence, better spins, and the 4Toe+3Toe+2Loop. Kulik's program had almost nothing in it. Great basic skating quality but virtually no choreography or non-jump difficulty and not an inspired level of performance.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The only inspiring thing about that 2006 performance were the jumps. Everything else was the most basic of choreography (makes Bonaly look like an Asada) and I don't consider multiple breaks with histrionics to be artistic expression. There was absolutely no program and if he had the misfortune of Lambiel actually going clean or Buttle being capable of doing a quad he would have been bronze at best. But he was technically way superior (even with the double) so the win is justified.

It was far from the gold standard or a figure skating ideal. Doesn't hold a candle to performances like Yagudin's 2002 win, or Takahashi's 4CC win or Chan's TEB win.

I do however place Plushenko above Kulik.
 

lakeside

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
the whole post
Nice try. Ok, now I see what you mean. Thank you.

Um, no height?! How do you think a jump can cover that much distance without getting any height? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMUdI73TC-A (look at the first axel, and tell me how that has no height). I personally prefer jumps that soar "up and across" rather than ones that go up and down.
Some people jump up and down but not across e.g. Machida, some jump across but not up e.g. Yan and Lipnitskaia, and some jump up and across e.g. Yuzru and Patrick. Videos don't tell you the whole truth. It depends on camera angles etc. Height is something you may have to watch live to really see it, just like people always say you gotta watch Patrick live to see his speed and ice coverage because that's something videos don't show you. I've seen Yan live more than once and what struck me was that his jumps had no height, even lower than those of Takahashi, who's not famous for big jumps himself.

Also, it's very rare to find somebody with the transitions into their axel that Hanyu has.
This is true.

Plushenko's program may have been watered down but he still had more expression than Kulik, a strong footwork sequence, better spins, and the 4Toe+3Toe+2Loop. Kulik's program had almost nothing in it. Great basic skating quality but virtually no choreography or non-jump difficulty and not an inspired level of performance.
ITA. I like Plushy more than Kulik.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
That's surprising. Yan's 3A looks much superior to Takahashi's. Takahashi is not somebody any of us associate with big jumps although he's miles ahead of Yan artistically.
 

lakeside

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
I was surprised when I saw them live too. But again Yan's 3A covers much more distance than Takahashi's. It's just that there's no height in both their jumps, especially Yan's. Well, Yan may improve in the height of his jumps, since he's still very young.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Some people jump up and down but not across e.g. Machida, some jump across but not up e.g. Yan and Lipnitskaia, and some jump up and across e.g. Yuzru and Patrick. Videos don't tell you the whole truth. It depends on camera angles etc. Height is something you may have to watch live to really see it, just like people always say you gotta watch Patrick live to see his speed and ice coverage because that's something videos don't show you. I've seen Yan live more than once and what struck me was that his jumps had no height, even lower than those of Takahashi, who's not famous for big jumps himself.
The fact that Yan's distance on the 3A is more impressive than its height is because he truly covers an enormous amount of ice, probably more than any 3A we've ever seen. But that in no way does it mean he doesn't have good height on the jump, also. Putting his axel in the same line as Lipnitskaya's is truly laughable.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
The fact that Yan's distance on the 3A is more impressive than its height is because he truly covers an enormous amount of ice, probably more than any 3A we've ever seen. But that in no way does it mean he doesn't have good height on the jump, also. Putting his axel in the same line as Lipnitskaya's is truly laughable.
Of course, you can't compare Yan Han to Julia. One is a male skater who is like over 170cm and one is a little girl with 150cm height. We all know Yulia's jumps do not have height but it would be fair if compare her jumps to other female skaters. I think what lakeside wanted to say is, unlike what we have seen in the video, Yan Han's 3A does not have such height as we have imaged. It's not like putting them in the same line, it's just some examples that come to her/his mind when she wanted to describe the height of jumps.

Anyways, I am kind of surprised too, I guess we will have to watch live to truly get the idea of how impressive or unimpressive these jumps are.:)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
What I love about Yan's axel is that it looks like he's going for broke. Like if something is slightly off he will totally wipe out (like his 2nd axel) because of how he literally throws himself into it... The trajectory reminds me of Shen/Zhao pair throw and I'm awestruck every time he nails it. When he gets comfortable enough to add transitions leading up to it, it should deserve +3s across the board.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Gold standard? Performers and performances that have stood the test of time.

Nearly 40 years after the moment, knowledgeable fans still watch Curry's Olympic win. I still watch Cousins, Boitano, Yagudin, and Plushenko at their best.

A month after Sochi, and I haven't rewatched any men's program. I have no plans to do so. Once was more than enough.

Who's going to be watching the Sochi version of Hanyu and Chan in 40 years?

Yeah. Give me the good old days. You can keep the uninspiring splat fest.

Granted, this is one fan, one event, one moment in time... but something is wrong with skating.
 

lakeside

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Of course, you can't compare Yan Han to Julia. One is a male skater who is like over 170cm and one is a little girl with 150cm height. We all know Yulia's jumps do not have height but it would be fair if compare her jumps to other female skaters. I think what lakeside wanted to say is, unlike what we have seen in the video, Yan Han's 3A does not have such height as we have imaged. It's not like putting them in the same line, it's just some examples that come to her/his mind when she wanted to describe the height of jumps.
Thanks for your explanation. That's exactly what I meant.

What I love about Yan's axel is that it looks like he's going for broke. Like if something is slightly off he will totally wipe out (like his 2nd axel) because of how he literally throws himself into it... The trajectory reminds me of Shen/Zhao pair throw and I'm awestruck every time he nails it.
Also keep in mind that Yan almost always does his 3A as his first jump in the program when he's full of energy, while others rarely do that. And Yan does his 3A at the middle right part of the rink instead of at the corner. There usually is a camera at the middle right part of the rink, so that camera can catch his full distance across, and that camera is placed a little below eye level looking upward, which makes Yan's 3A higher than if you see it live. On the other hand, other skaters e.g. Yuzru and Patrick do their 3A's at the corner so the camera angle doesn't show their distance. For instance, I watched Yuzru and Yan doing their 3A's at the same rink, Yuzru had much more height than Yan and covered at least as much distance if not more, but in competitions Yuzru almost always does his 3A at the corner so the camera doesn't usually catch his distance across. That's why I think people should watch more competitions live instead of relying on tricky camera angles. After all, from one camera angle a jump may look <, and from another angle it may look fine. Camera angles can get tricky.
 
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