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Thread: Tuktamysheva: "I'm going to try the triple Axel and quad toe loop if I'm healthy"'

  1. #16
    Custom Title Sochi_2014's Avatar
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    Wow I had no idea that Tuk used to have a 3axel! Was beautiful too!

  2. #17
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Then why do people constantly tell me Yulia needs to jump higher like Tara Lipinski did? I do think people who focus on how high they can launch are risking a lot more. My point is a safer trajectory with a more consistent landing may and likely will ensure a better or at least a longer career. I mean this isn't a pole vaulting competition. Height is the least impressive aspect in jumping for me. I prefer flow and ease. It lends itself to the music better in my opinion. YMMV. Mine apparently does.

  3. #18
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    There's no such thing as jumping too high, but there IS such a thing as bad technique, trying too hard, and over training. Some coaches are much better than others at understanding and setting limits on training that are effective to get the job done but also don't push a skater past the point of exhausting which lead to injuries.
    How do we know if it's bad techniques if skaters land all the jumps and get positive GOE? I am very curious about this matter because if coaches know which jumping technique is bad for human body, then we should have avoid lots of injuries. Mishin's students have excellent jump techniques but it seems to me like he pushes them too much?

  4. #19
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Bad technique is not a term that can be applied universal. They all have different body size and skating technique. Not everyone can or should jump like Yuna. It wouldn't work for them. A good coach maximizes the skaters abilities and tailors them to the skater. There isn't some text book definition that all skaters follow. That's the genius of some coaches and the failures of others. Liza over jumps in my opinion and its resulting in a lot of gambling.

  5. #20
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Little lady with high jumps - Midori Ito, yes?

    Was she much injured? I can't recall that she was, but hopefully others will be able to tell with more certainty.

    As for technique - as far as I understand it, Liza's technique being very good seems to be one thing that people seem to mostly agree on.

  6. #21
    Custom Title Antilopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sochi_2014 View Post
    Wow I had no idea that Tuk used to have a 3axel! Was beautiful too!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

  7. #22
    Custom Title Sochi_2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antilopa View Post
    Thanks! Yeah I YouTubed it and watched this video too. It was so beautiful and high.

  8. #23
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    She seemed to be over extending herself at Russian nationals. Sure she had a great entrance and huge height but she seemed to use all her energy up accomplishing those two things alone. You have to be able to get back on that edge and flow out..the higher you go the harder it is to transfer out unless of course you increase your speed relative. Was it really worth it for an inch or two extra? She didn't go to Euros because she was falling on big jumps. It's my opinion she could have tamed the height a bit and just landed solid jumps and easily placed above Elena Leonova. I feel pretty confident about that and I think that it is a coaching mistake.

  9. #24
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    I think she needs to establish more consistency in her jumps first and work on the choreography so that it works for her. While maximizing the points the way Adelina did in Sochi is the path to winning gold these days it seems, Tuk needs a better base. Caro toned down her jumps and worked on the presentation first and those always saved her when technical elements got away from her during crunch time. Perhaps maturation in presentation and expanding beyond the tangos and yet another version of "Dark Eyes" (which every Russian competitor seems required to do at some point in their careers) would distinguish her as a skater. Perform first, build the jump consistency, then maybe go for the bigger elements.

    By all means she should definitely try them but perhaps not in competition yet. Her standing has dropped quite a bit to the point where a lot of us forgot about her a year after she first medaled at Euros. She needs to make us remember her. Breaking her body on the most difficult elements at this time might not be the best strategy. Perhaps in a year or two?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    I am more worried this will increase her injuries, she has chronic back pains already
    but she needs the 3A I guess to compete with the younger girls who all have 3-3 and better skating skills and total PCS that Tuk gets

    I think it will be a while before she even attempts a 3A
    I'd bet on Sotnikova trying a 4T than Tuk getting that
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

    More rotated than almost all of Mao's attempts ever.

    She's older now, but she's also stronger. It just depends on whether or not she wants to deal with training it on a regular basis.

    But this should not be a hard jump for her to get, considering her technique on it is pretty good and she rotates more efficiently than Asada.

    The Triple Axel is totally possible.

    The Quad Toe is something I'm a bit more skeptical about.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Tara Lipinski had microjumps. She rotated more than jumped. Her constantly torquing her 3Los were her downfall to injury.

    There's no such thing as jumping too high, but there IS such a thing as bad technique, trying too hard, and over training. Some coaches are much better than others at understanding and setting limits on training that are effective to get the job done but also don't push a skater past the point of exhausting which lead to injuries.
    Lol, Lipinski didn't really torque that much on her loops. Look at Caroline Zhang, that's torqueing the loop. Lipinski actually had fabulous loop technique and that is why that was a money jump for her.

    Tara overtrained. She did too many jumps, not just loops - everything.

    It doesn't matter if you torque or not. If you're landing triples on that hip constantly it may or may not hold up to that kind of training.

  12. #27
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

    More rotated than almost all of Mao's attempts ever.
    Maybe, but no one has seen her land one since. She attempted one not too long ago at one of those Russian test skates...but it wasn't even close.

    A 13 year old pre-pubescent girl landing a 3A is one thing...repeatedly landing one at 23 years old is more impressive IMO.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

    More rotated than almost all of Mao's attempts ever.

    She's older now, but she's also stronger. It just depends on whether or not she wants to deal with training it on a regular basis.

    But this should not be a hard jump for her to get, considering her technique on it is pretty good and she rotates more efficiently than Asada.

    The Triple Axel is totally possible.

    The Quad Toe is something I'm a bit more skeptical about.
    That is a huge Axel! But I am being evil here. she looked so skinny there. Her current body seems much chubbier, and she has to lose all those weight before she does it again.

    On the other hand, Adelina's 4T may not be that far fetched. Just look at Adelina's athletic body type!

  14. #29
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Maybe, but no one has seen her land one since. She attempted one not too long ago at one of those Russian test skates...but it wasn't even close.

    A 13 year old pre-pubescent girl landing a 3A is one thing...repeatedly landing one at 23 years old is more impressive IMO.
    There is absolutely no indication Liza will ever be able to do a 3A now. The one at the test skate wasn't even close as kwanatic says, and this video of her at age 13 is the most recent video we have of her doing one. Her body is VERY different now, and the evidence is actually (based on the test skate) that she's a long way off this goal.

    Now if she can get one, good for her. But I don't think there is any reason to think it is probable or even likely.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayW View Post
    That is a huge Axel! But I am being evil here. she looked so skinny there. Her current body seems much chubbier, and she has to lose all those weight before she does it again.

    On the other hand, Adelina's 4T may not be that far fetched. Just look at Adelina's athletic body type!
    Adelina's ability to do a Quad Toe may be largely mental at this point. She finishes rotating her Triple Toe like a foot off the ice. A quad is just a matter of pulling in a little tighter (she jumps so high that she doesn't pull in as tight as most other girls) and staying in until the jump touches the ice.

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