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Thread: Tuktamysheva: "I'm going to try the triple Axel and quad toe loop if I'm healthy"'

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Maybe, but no one has seen her land one since. She attempted one not too long ago at one of those Russian test skates...but it wasn't even close.

    A 13 year old pre-pubescent girl landing a 3A is one thing...repeatedly landing one at 23 years old is more impressive IMO.
    Technically the one I linked is more impressive because it's more impressive from a technical standpoint. Less pre-rotation on the take-off, amazing revolution and a much cleaner landing with a ton of speed out of it.

    Mao didn't just start throwing Triple Axels, and she is certainly no Harding or Ito as far as that jump is concerned.

  2. #32
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    Adelina's ability to do a Quad Toe may be largely mental at this point. She finishes rotating her Triple Toe like a foot off the ice. A quad is just a matter of pulling in a little tighter (she jumps so high that she doesn't pull in as tight as most other girls) and staying in until the jump touches the ice.
    Adelina's 2a at Russian Nationals Gala was completed over a foot off of the ground too!!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    Adelina's ability to do a Quad Toe may be largely mental at this point. She finishes rotating her Triple Toe like a foot off the ice. A quad is just a matter of pulling in a little tighter (she jumps so high that she doesn't pull in as tight as most other girls) and staying in until the jump touches the ice.
    Yes, I can't wait to see her trying it in competitions! If she did it, she will certainly have a big edge over other ladies.

    But on the other hand, I don't want her to suffer the same way as Mao with her 3Axel.

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    BTW, there *is* such a thing as jumping too high.

    High jumps are much harder to control than low jumps. This is a big deal for combinations, and is why a lot of skaters will jump lower when they're putting a jump in combination than if they're doing it as a solo jump. For a combination you have to be even MORE in control of the landing of the first jump to get the second one off - especially if it's a 3-3 or 4-3 combo.

    Being able to control power, speed, effort is important in skating. Things *can* be overcooked.

  5. #35
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    I agree with everyone else re: Adelina attempting a 4T. The biggest hurdle would be her mind. Her 3T is so massive already, once she gets the mechanics of the 4T down I think she'd be able to do it.

  6. #36
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Doesn't it seem odd right after injury to attempt something so risky. She needs to improve her results and climb the world rankings first. This feels like the equivalent to going into a casino and putting everything on black and saying a prayer.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I agree with everyone else re: Adelina attempting a 4T. The biggest hurdle would be her mind. Her 3T is so massive already, once she gets the mechanics of the 4T down I think she'd be able to do it.
    If she can at least rotate the 4T even if she falls she will still get as much Credit as a Base Triple Lutz, which is about as much as a Triple Flip with some +GOE.

    Then she can do 3L or 3F-2Lo and DA.

    The BV will still be higher than a 3 Triple SP, and it will likely still score higher than her current setup as well due to how high a Quad + Fall can score in IJS due to the high BV of the jump.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Doesn't it seem odd right after injury to attempt something so risky. She needs to improve her results and climb the world rankings first. This feels like the equivalent to going into a casino and putting everything on black and saying a prayer.
    She tore a Ligament in her Ankle. I have fallen on a one foot stop and done the same thing (skate fell over to inside edge and my entire body weight fell outside, so I was basically suspended there for seconds with my ankle bent at about 75-80 degrees, in [new] stiff boots). Once it healed somewhat I was back to learning harder jumps/spins without issue. It hurt for about 18 months or so.

    I think people are blowing her "injury" way out of proportion :-) She did not break her leg in 3 places or something.

    She should still be working on her skating skills. That should be part of the training regimen of any elite skater. There is *always* room to improve in all places, IMO.

    Her spins can improve, as well.

    As an athelete, unless you're constantly challenging yourself, things can get pretty darn boring. She may just be trying to keep herself motivated, if she really enjoys the challenge of attempting those hard jumps.

    I know I have taken multi-week breaks because I was simply burnt out on working on "basics" because it got extremely boring. I even pulled out of competitions out of boredom and lack of motivation.

  9. #39
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I'm just starting physical therapy myself from hitting my knee on the ice then the dasher boards Mine must be way worse because I was told four months before I would be nearing my ability to skate 100%. Mine was a bone bruise and strained MCL. She must be lucky because it looked like there was a cast on her in some of her Instagram photos. I'm just maybe being overly protective. I like Tukt quite a bit. She was the first Russian skater I felt drawn to.

    I will also add that I have sprained both ankles and broken one and they actually are stronger now and susequently more flexible overall.

  10. #40
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    If she can at least rotate the 4T even if she falls she will still get as much Credit as a Base Triple Lutz, which is about as much as a Triple Flip with some +GOE.

    Then she can do 3L or 3F-2Lo and DA.

    The BV will still be higher than a 3 Triple SP, and it will likely still score higher than her current setup as well due to how high a Quad + Fall can score in IJS due to the high BV of the jump.
    Ladies cannot do quads (by rule) in the SP.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Ladies cannot do quads (by rule) in the SP.
    Really? What an odd rule!

  12. #42
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    ^ It's the no fun, not now, not ever rule!

  13. #43
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    BTW, there *is* such a thing as jumping too high.

    High jumps are much harder to control than low jumps. This is a big deal for combinations, and is why a lot of skaters will jump lower when they're putting a jump in combination than if they're doing it as a solo jump. For a combination you have to be even MORE in control of the landing of the first jump to get the second one off - especially if it's a 3-3 or 4-3 combo.

    Being able to control power, speed, effort is important in skating. Things *can* be overcooked.
    Not being able to control a jump =/= "jumping too high" being a problem. I refer to exhibit A (Midori Ito) and exhibit B (Tonya Harding when she was really trained) when I say that there is no such thing as "jumping too high".

    There is such a thing as bad technique. I am not saying this applies to Tuktamysheva, I am saying that it exists and leads to many chronic injuries.

    There is also such a thing as trying too hard. This also often leads to an inability to control a jump because you actually put yourself out of optimal position in the air by trying too hard on the takeoff. This will also lead to injury and inconsistency. As my coach often says "just let the blades do the work" when it comes to the jumps we are working on. I suspect Tuktamysheva has been going through this a bit as her body has changed from little girl to young woman in that she's trying to memorize how much effort is required for jumps when you aren't twig sized.

    There is also the case of over training. This is what I believe has been the cause of many skaters' chronic injuries. Some coaches are better than others at working with their skaters to avoid over training/over use injuries. Mishin does not appear to be in the "better" category with regards to over training.

    While Lipinski's jump technique was no where near as bad as Zhang, she did over torque her loop take offs and adding her "rotate first" technique to over training led to the end of her career. Her jumps were never big, she really relied on fast rotation (although, I will agree her jumps were bigger than Lipnitskaya's).

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayW View Post
    That is a huge Axel! But I am being evil here. she looked so skinny there. Her current body seems much chubbier, and she has to lose all those weight before she does it again.
    Gee, funny that. A 13 year old twig being skinnier than a 17 year old who has done what EVERY SINGLE WOMAN IN THE WORLD DOES DURING PUBERTY and put on weight?!?!?!? Gasp, shock, horror!



    I would prefer for Liza to stay injury free rather than trying bigger jumps, but she at least has the technique base to try it (unlike some - yes, I'm looking at you, Lipnitskaya).

  15. #45
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    I am afraid even a lady lands a 4T in competition (unless other elements are also clean), the overall score would be higher. People would throw in the "circus" argument like when Siu/Han did a 2 footed 4throw,

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