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Thread: Kanako Murakami's Future

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    I take your point, although I'm not entirely convinced that judges (tech panel) always makes the right calls, for whatever reason...!

    And even if everything was fair and 100% objective (impossible), I also think there is more to it anyway. I think once a skater gets a reputation for under-rotation, they are subjected to more reviews and closer scrutiny by the technical panel, than other skaters... and at that point it becomes unfair:

    It may mean that other skaters "get away with stuff" occasionally, whereas the one with a "reputation" never gets a break.
    They don't always make the right calls. However, when she wouldn't get hammered on so many URs on home ice if there weren't some legitimate problem. People can keep defending her and saying the Emperor's clothes look amazing, but they really need to admit that she's not giving tech specialists any reason not to call her URs.

    Instead of whining that tech panels aren't giving her the benefit of the doubt, she should be working to remove doubt when it comes to how rotated her jumps actually are.

    And saying the tech panels aren't properly trained is a useless point, as they're the ones judging the sport and not us, and BoP many of us disagree with your assessment of how jumps are rotated and not rotated and it's clear that you cut Murakami more slack than others. I think most of us agree that Murakami has a big tendency to UR her jumps, and the tech panels with their replays - which I, BoP, and none of us have access to - confirm this more definitively. As I said, there's no way Murakami would have gotten that many UR's called on home ice - likely the most she's ever received in a competition. Even if half of the 8 UR calls she received among the SP + LP were actually the wrong call, that's still 4 URs in a competition.

  2. #32
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    it's clear that you cut Murakami more slack than others.
    LOL? No I don't. Why would I to begin with?

    Keep talking all you want but the fact is tech panels DON'T analyze jumps properly. They just see a skid on the landing and it's automatically given a < if the jump wasn't clearly rotated all the way. They also often decide based upon the top of the toepick touching the ice, rather than the blade, and that is not correct (there isn't enough weight on the ice at that point for the jump to be considered "landed"). There needs to be a precise, universal standard that is applied and it needs to take into consideration the entirety of the jump.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    LOL? No I don't. Why would I to begin with?

    Keep talking all you want but the fact is tech panels DON'T analyze jumps properly. They just see a skid on the landing and it's automatically given a < if the jump wasn't clearly rotated all the way. They also often decide based upon the top of the toepick touching the ice, rather than the blade, and that is not correct (there isn't enough weight on the ice at that point for the jump to be considered "landed"). There needs to be a precise, universal standard that is applied and it needs to take into consideration the entirety of the jump.
    I concur with this. There needs to be better training on how to mark > properly.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    They also often decide based upon the top of the toepick touching the ice, rather than the blade, and that is not correct (there isn't enough weight on the ice at that point for the jump to be considered "landed").
    Is there an actual rule about this, or are the technical specialists on their own? Would you say that Mirai Nagasu is an example of a skater who reaches down with her toe pick and so gets a lot of UR calls? What about Mao Asada?

  5. #35
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Is there an actual rule about this, or are the technical specialists on their own?
    There is no rule. There are really no rules at all about measuring rotation! Tech specialists are only taught to look at landings and deduct if it is more than 1/4 short (or a full 1/2 short). But what does that actually mean, given that every jump exists within a circle? There are no specific qualifications about determining where a jump starts, where it lands, and how much rotation there should be. Some tech specialists have become more aware of the actual mechanics, but there is still no consistency. It's a huge disservice to the competitors and to the audiences. A scientific method MUST be taught and specifically laid-out in the rules.

  6. #36
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I'd like to see her do a SP again with all 3 Triples in the second half of the program. She's still the only female to do that and it does help to set her apart.
    Yes. (The same to the other things in your post, but this especially.)

  7. #37
    tripping on the toe pick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    There is no rule. There are really no rules at all about measuring rotation! Tech specialists are only taught to look at landings and deduct if it is more than 1/4 short (or a full 1/2 short). But what does that actually mean, given that every jump exists within a circle? There are no specific qualifications about determining where a jump starts, where it lands, and how much rotation there should be.
    Really? That's... confusing.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    There is no rule. There are really no rules at all about measuring rotation! Tech specialists are only taught to look at landings and deduct if it is more than 1/4 short (or a full 1/2 short). But what does that actually mean, given that every jump exists within a circle? There are no specific qualifications about determining where a jump starts, where it lands, and how much rotation there should be. Some tech specialists have become more aware of the actual mechanics, but there is still no consistency. It's a huge disservice to the competitors and to the audiences. A scientific method MUST be taught and specifically laid-out in the rules.
    Can the combo with the second Loop jump be ever ratified, based on what you said?

  9. #39
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I'd like to see her do a SP again with all 3 Triples in the second half of the program. She's still the only female to do that and it does help to set her apart.
    I agree with you, but she's not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20mi0OXcKvY I really like programs which begin with steps/spins and leave the "exciting" section in the second half, too!

  10. #40
    Custom Title lady_bee's Avatar
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    Sorry to interrupt your serious conversation.

    Why don’t you just take a break?
    https://twitter.com/nobutaro1001/sta...306496/photo/1

    I am really worried about if this picture could ruin Kanako’s future,
    or could it open new window for her?

  11. #41
    tripping on the toe pick
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    ^ lol

  12. #42
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lady_bee View Post
    Sorry to interrupt your serious conversation.

    Why don’t you just take a break?
    https://twitter.com/nobutaro1001/sta...306496/photo/1

    I am really worried about if this picture could ruin Kanako’s future,
    or could it open new window for her?
    THIS could OPEN new path for her future, I suppose.

  13. #43
    Custom Title mirai4life's Avatar
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    Would love to see her work hard on fixing the flutz

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    LOL? No I don't. Why would I to begin with?

    Keep talking all you want but the fact is tech panels DON'T analyze jumps properly. They just see a skid on the landing and it's automatically given a < if the jump wasn't clearly rotated all the way. They also often decide based upon the top of the toepick touching the ice, rather than the blade, and that is not correct (there isn't enough weight on the ice at that point for the jump to be considered "landed"). There needs to be a precise, universal standard that is applied and it needs to take into consideration the entirety of the jump.
    You cry foul about Murakami's URs more than any other skater. I hope she never reads your posts, lest she actually believe that her jumps are actually fine and it's merely uneducated judges that are the problem.

  15. #45
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You cry foul about Murakami's URs more than any other skater.
    That's because she receives more unfair UR calls than any other skater.

    Statistically someone has to be that person.

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