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Thread: Kanako Murakami's Future

  1. #46
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    Kanako's future outside of 4CC appears to be bleak.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    That's because she receives more unfair UR calls than any other skater.

    Statistically someone has to be that person.
    Do you even acknowledge that Murakami has an UR issue or do you think her technique is solid and it's all the tech panel (or rather, the multiple tech panels') fault and inability to assess jumps?

    You also cannot make the call that she receives the most unfair UR calls when you do not have the technology the definitively determines that. You can GUESS based on a camera angle from a YouTube video - which I assume is the way you normally assess landings - but they have access to more definitive replays. Yes they make mistakes, but with only one camera angle to make your assessment, and less qualification (or no qualification, even) as a tech spec, you probably make more mistaken calls than the tech panels (plural).

    You are like us - a spectator. It is not your call to make. It's fine to comment on it but to say everyone is wrong except you and your golden brain witnessing jumps from a certain camera angle should be the standard is absolute self-aggrandizing at best and delusion at worst.

  3. #48
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    Murakami has stressed "maturity" since the second year as a senior. She never talked about "fixing techniques" as far as I know. I think she was very anxious about the onslaught of technically sperior youngsters (especially Miyahara). I don't know if she was successful with her strategy (5th and 4th at worlds are not bad results), but it looks like the time is up for her. The judges are not generous to "mature" but technically inferior skaters anymore.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Murakami has stressed "maturity" since the second year as a senior. She never talked about "fixing techniques" as far as I know. I think she was very anxious about the onslaught of technically sperior youngsters (especially Miyahara). I don't know if she was successful with her strategy (5th and 4th at worlds are not bad results), but it looks like the time is up for her. The judges are not generous to "mature" but technically inferior skaters anymore.
    Tell that to Pogorilaya after Worlds.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Do you even acknowledge that Murakami has an UR issue or do you think her technique is solid and it's all the tech panel (or rather, the multiple tech panels') fault and inability to assess jumps?
    What do you define as an "UR issue"? Her jumps are sometimes tight on the rotation. They are not more than 1/4 short most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You also cannot make the call that she receives the most unfair UR calls when you do not have the technology the definitively determines that. They have access to more definitive replays.
    The technology I have is perfectly fine in most cases. Their "definitive" replays are not of much use when they don't look at the entire jump. If a skater takes off for a jump at a bit of an angle, that means the landing point is further back than if they took off directly facing the tech panel. Instead, though, the tech panel often just looks at the jump as if the skater did take off directly facing them. Again, all jumps exist within a circle. Plus, as I already said, panels often considered a jump "landed" when the very top of the toepick touches the ice. There are several logical reasons for why that is not the correct way to call a jump.

    The way you trust in tech panels with blind faith is very suspect. They are not given correct and thorough training. What I find most suspect, though, is how you only ever get up in arms about it when my examinations of unfair calls have to do with the direct competitor of a Canadian. You always deny any wrong-doing of the tech panel when it comes to Takahashi (a director competitor of Chan) and you always deny any wrong-doing of the tech panel when it comes to Murakami (a direct competitor of Osmond). Your constant attempts to talk-down Murakami pretty much just seems like political maneuvering to push her aside so that Osmond can rise in the rankings.

  6. #51
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    What an interesting perspective. It is true Murakami beat Osmond at Worlds despite her less-than-ideal technique and despite losing about 20 points in UR calls ranging from very fair to dubious. That might also explain the multiple mentions of home judging despite Japan's usual inability to prop up their #3 in any discipline. Should I as an Asada fan be relieved that Rochette is retired?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Tell that to Pogorilaya after Worlds.
    Tell what? Russian #2 (in fact #4 or #5) can't beat the European favorite with an Olympic medal. That's the nature of "world championships". Even the Japanese #3 doesn't have the home advantage. Murakami's score will be 25 points higher in next year if she becomes the #1 (I'm doubtful about that possibility though).

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    Being Canadian has nothing to do with it. Murakami was called out on her URs and if she got fewer called she would have still beat Osmond so I fail to see your point. If Takahashi hasn't been called on his 3F< at 2012 worlds, he would have still lost so I fail to see your point.

    Murakami's UR issue - and yes it is an issue if every international tech panel is calling them - needs to be fixed. To say she's a little tight but otherwise getting them done is being an enabler. Like anyone saying Gold has no technical issues (even with her lip and axel) or Julia is an occasional flutzer whose lutz technique is fine.

    Also please tell us BoP, what grand "technology" do you possess more than the average spectator? A fullscreen YouTube browser? Or do you have a secret hidden camera at every edge of the rink?

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    @CSG most of the time if there's slow motion replay of jumps, that and 0.25x speed playback on YouTube is plenty of technology for the average spectator to get a good look. Lower resolution and lower frame rate to be sure but still sufficient.

    Anyway part of the point of starting this thread was to ask whether it would be worth it for Murakami to try fixing all her technique issues, not ask whether there was a problem (there clearly is, what with her flutz, mule kick, and often tight landings). So in your opinion as a skater, is it worth it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    @CSG most of the time if there's slow motion replay of jumps, that and 0.25x speed playback on YouTube is plenty of technology for the average spectator to get a good look. Lower resolution and lower frame rate to be sure but still sufficient.

    Anyway part of the point of starting this thread was to ask whether it would be worth it for Murakami to try fixing all her technique issues, not ask whether there was a problem (there clearly is, what with her flutz, mule kick, and often tight landings). So in your opinion as a skater, is it worth it?
    Slow motion replay is at a certain camera angle for spectators. The tech panel can take a closer look that the average viewer. If the tech panel is particularly astringent, then even benefit of the doubt (and home ice) won't save a skater from getting dinged. You think the tech panel wants to waste their time going over every single jumping pass of Murakami?

    This thread is about her future. And those saying her jumps are "sometimes tight on the rotation" (when as you said, and I agree, is something that is often and not occasional) is trivializing how much she actually needs to change her technique/power if she wants to move forward. I think she is certainly capable of improving her technique and height (I mean, Miyahara shouldn't throw in the towel either, should she...) and can get stronger to get the rotation around. Sometimes artistry is the hardest thing to develop and she has it in spades, so now she just needs reliable, unquestionable jumps and she can be a contender.

    Or, you know, she could also wait until BoP is summoned by the ISU to showcase the ground-breaking "technology" he has, and with his vast credentials provide enlightening ISU keynotes/seminars that educate tech panels on how to properly assess rotation. Hopefully he can spare some time away from choreographing programs for elite skaters.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Being Canadian has nothing to do with it. Murakami was called out on her URs and if she got fewer called she would have still beat Osmond so I fail to see your point. If Takahashi hasn't been called on his 3F< at 2012 worlds, he would have still lost so I fail to see your point.
    Being Canadian has a lot to do with it. Takahashi's < at 2012 Worlds is just one of several ways that the judging was wrong, all of which together resulted in Patrick Chan undeservedly winning that competition (although correct PCS judging alone would have given it to Takahashi). You always love to cherry-pick points out in isolation as if it didn't matter because it wouldn't change the competition result anyway. And then when the whole picture is brought together you just start denying claims. As a clear challenger to Chan, you always berate Takahashi's Quad attempts as a way of trying to create some security around your own Nationalist wishes.

    As for Murakami, you only started getting defensive about her unfair underrotation calls at 2012 Skate Canada, when both she and Akiko Suzuki should have beat Osmond at that competition. Given that Murakami is clearly the "next age" of Japanese skating and Canada desperately wants a strong female contender, it's so obvious where your intents are with your constant talk of Murakami's "UR issue".

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Also please tell us BoP, what grand "technology" do you possess more than the average spectator?
    Many times I've seen the official feeds that the sitting tech specialists do. High def broadcasts from multiple angles downloaded into video software that can super slow-mo the image suffices in most other cases.

  12. #57
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    I love Murakami but her jumps will always hold her back. I do hope she continues though. I think she can win a world medal if she lucks into a year she has a great competition with as few (or no) jump issues, and others make mistakes. It would be sad for such a talent to retire so young, but she has other things in her life she wants to pursue she says which is fine as well. Atleast either way she isnt going to be the next Fumie Suguri, and that is a relief.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Many times I've seen the official feeds that the sitting tech specialists do. High def broadcasts from multiple angles downloaded into video software that can super slow-mo the image suffices in most other cases.
    OMG, me too! You're not a tech specialist (heck, I'm curious to know how much you've even been a skater) and until you become one, I would go with their calls (especially when at Worlds in Japan you would think they would not nail her with so many URs and give a home ice skater the benefit of the doubt instead of 8 UR calls). I much prefer it to your own little world of what rotation means and how it should be assessed. Feel free to continue thinking Murakami is misjudged and needs no improvement, but hopefully she makes the effort to mitigate her often tight rotations and mule kick and the like if she wants to stay competitive.

  14. #59
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    When did I ever say Murakami needs no improvement? Stop creating false statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You're not a tech specialist.
    Yes I am. And I've put more work into it than many people actually picked by the ISU to judge competitions.

    There is a science behind jumping and correctly assessing the rotation. This is a fact and no amount of talk from you will suddenly make it disappear. It's also a fact that the ISU does not teach the correct methods AND they do not have proper definitions in their rules.

    BTW, why do you constantly talk about "home ice" as if that somehow makes the calls more correct? What a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I love Murakami but her jumps will always hold her back. I do hope she continues though. I think she can win a world medal if she lucks into a year she has a great competition with as few (or no) jump issues, and others make mistakes. It would be sad for such a talent to retire so young, but she has other things in her life she wants to pursue she says which is fine as well. Atleast either way she isnt going to be the next Fumie Suguri, and that is a relief.
    Well said, PTF.

    I love her skating, but her donkey kick and tight landings (all that I have is youtube and youtube shows those and I don't think even the extra cameras that some have access to can hide them) get me every time, and I wonder, have to wonder, if she has it in her to fight out the technical issues. (I would be surprised.) I am sure she has the ability. I won't think anything less of her if she doesn't (and I think that she is amazing) but I have some doubt as to whether she has the heart to pursue the technical perfection not yet achieved, given her comments about having other goals in life, which I admire as much as her amazing skating. Even if she does not sort out her jumping issues, I know that she will always do her best, and that her artistry will always be great, and I hope to see her skating for quite some time. She is probably the one skater who I have the most confidence in to let go at the right time. Ya, her jump issues are kinda big but I don't think that any Murakami fan should ever expect that they will be cured any time soon (although I would love to eat those words). WYSIWYG with her. Total honesty.

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