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Thread: Tim Goebel and the Hinged Boot

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Tim Goebel and the Hinged Boot

    http://www.cleveland.com/search/inde...5312.xml?sxoth

    Here is an article on the hinged boot that the USFSA has been paying companies to try to develop. Apparently, it is close. RGirl, this should make your day.

    Tim Goebel is interviewed, and it sounds as if he was interested. However, he has a contract with SP Teri that runs through May.
    Tim had more injuries than I knew about as well as the boots (as we probably all suspected), too.

    From what I have seen of these boots, I expect bootcovers would be the order of the day, if you were using them.

    dpp

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    cranky girl guinevere's Avatar
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    Interesting article!

    IIRC, the advantages of the clap-skate in speed skating are so remarkable that none of the winners wear the old kind anymore (meaning the old kind don't win anymore). I know figure skating isn't about speed in the same way, but I wonder if this would have the same effect?

    Nice to hear about Tim's progress, but seeing as Micheal Weiss has designed his own skating blades, I would have liked to have heard what he thinks about the new designs. I don't get the sense that Mikey is that resistant to change, :P

    I always wondered where the unusual name SP-Teri came from...the owner's name is Spiteri! Ha!

    guinevere

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    guinevere,

    Probably Mikey might be like most of us...so fond of his own invention that it's hard to look at the hinged boot. But he might put the freedom blades on the hinged boot. And that Would Be interesting to see.

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    Re: Tim Goebel and the Hinged Boot

    Originally posted by DORISPULASKI
    Here is an article on the hinged boot that the USFSA has been paying companies to try to develop. Apparently, it is close. RGirl, this should make your day.
    Doris,
    Yup, yup, yup! This made my day big time. Although with mixed emotions since it's sad that so many gifted skaters had to lose their careers due to injury before a change could be accepted. But that's human nature.

    The same thing happened in ballet with pointe shoes. In the early '80s, manufacturers of running shoes had done all the R&D in developing material that was shock absorbant, form fitting, and durable. Pointe shoes were still being made out of cardboard and glue, basically. A pair cost $50, would last a principal dancer one performance, and wrecked dancers' feet. At first the resistance came from the dancers; we've always worn pointe shoes like these, this *hi tech* stuff has no respect for tradition. Then after a few dancers tried some new material prototype pointe shoes and their feet weren't in agony after two hours of nonstop dancing for the first time ever, word of mouth got around,

    Then it was the major manufacturers who resisted, and why wouldn't they? Their product wore out every night; they were making a fortune. Even if they charged $200 for pointe shoes that would last, they'd still lose money, not to mention the costs of retraining their cobblers and retooling the machines for certain parts.

    It took about 15 years for pointe shoes to catch up to the 21st century. I remember the first time I went to see New York City Ballet when the corps de ballet ran on stage without the *clack clack clack* of the hard pointe show box against the stage. Without that awful sound, the dancers really did seem lighter than air.

    Anyway, as Yags said on the ESPN piece about injuries from jumping, skaters will always push the outside of the envelope when it comes to jumping. And skaters will always push too hard and get injured. But I do believe the hinged FS boot will at least reduce the risk of injury for skaters doing 4/3s, 3/3s, etc. And THAT really makes my day.

    Thanks a bunch for the link, Doris.
    Rgirl

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Doris - After reading your link, I am at leasst satisfied with what exactly 'hinged' meant. I kept thinking that the hinge related to the blade and not the boot.

    There seems to be some controversy with new hinged skate. Some like it; others don't see it will prevent accidents; others think the best boot is the one that fits perfectly.

    Also this hinged boot changes the shape of the traditional boot, somewhat. If not everyone is using the new hinged skate, will the judges accept it?

    If skaters do not want to practice with the new boot because it may interfere with the shcedule leading to competitions. If few people give it a try, will it be enough of a sample to say
    Prevents Accidents?

    (I remember in my day I had an Arnold boot over a CCC blade and I thought that was the greatest. -- Anyone remember that?)

    Joe

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    Well. I think its often a matter of fit problems, which inovation wont fix in the least. I think a lot is also just that the body can only do so much as well.

    The new design doesnt sound comfortable at all, and the fact that its made by Jackson doesnt comfort me much. I mean, I dont even have an axel, and Jackson doesnt even make a boot as stiff as my new ones. Hello, they think people are gonna do triples on their boots? No way....

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The new boot is not leather, so I imagine it would not be that similar to whatever Jackson puts out that's a leather product. You can build the material at whatever stiffness that is desired.

    And the reason the boot is less hard on the skater is just physics. If you can cushion the shock on the landing, it will not damage as much. A boot of that description can certainly be built. Whether Jackson has truly been successful has yet to be seen though. Whatever the boot, hinged or not, it still will have to fit properly, though.

    Joe's question about aesthetics and whether the judges will accept these new boots is the more difficult question. On the bright side, the judges have actually been quite kind to Michael Weiss's freedom skates, if you think about it. They could, conceivably, have treated those heel moves in his footwork as straight stroking, or a break in the f/w, but his f/w seems to get full marks. I expect no deductions on the technical side. However, on the program components side, who knows? I expect that these boots might be worn with boot covers or long tights if they look too goofy. Again in this context, the judges were kind to Marinin's "spectator" boot covers, even though they looked goofy. And I don't think that Bonaly suffered deductions that were that dreadful for those funny little partial boot covers she wore to simulate the effect that she didn't like to skate in tights. However, there was a lot of chitchat about them. But she may have suffered deductions. It's hard to know. One thing that hinged boots will probably do is allow easier toe point, which will be an aesthetic improvement.

    The article does not say Tim will be using these boots. And in fact I doubt whether Tim could say he will be using the boots, because he is under contract to Sp Teri as an endorser at this time. I am sure that he can't say in print he is using something else. I suspect he won't be using them at the 4/6 cheesefest, but we should all be looking. After all, the cheesefest does not air until May, so possibly he could get away with that.?
    I doubt that they would sue him, given that a trial where Tim discusses the trouble with the bad fitting boots, the damage to his body would not be good for them.

    It is too bad that it is Tim that might be the one taking the risk to try these out. After all, he has always been hit for his presentation marks, so how would one know whether he was being hit more than usual, just like Bonaly?

    Since the USFSA has paid for these boots to be developed, I expect that at inside-US competitions that the judges will Not deduct for the boots, however. Internationally, who knows? If Plush used them, I am sure they would be rapidly accepted. And Speedy was ISU president when clap skates were accepted for speed skating. That should be a leg up for acceptance.

    In the end, skating is supposed to be a sport. Rgirl has described how the ballerinas finally gave up the toe shoes that crippled them. If a true art can make this move, it would be strange for a sport not to do so for aesthetic reasons.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 04-03-2004 at 02:49 AM.

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    Champion Skater (Vicariously)
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    This kinda reminds me of how slow ballet slipper manufactorers were to come out with shoes that had no leather in the arch. DUH you can point easier without it there and its less material for the manufactorer.

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    Re: Tim Goebel and the Hinged Boot

    Originally posted by DORISPULASKI
    http://www.cleveland.com/search/inde...5312.xml?sxoth

    Here is an article on the hinged boot that the USFSA has been paying companies to try to develop. Apparently, it is close. RGirl, this should make your day.

    Tim Goebel is interviewed, and it sounds as if he was interested. However, he has a contract with SP Teri that runs through May.
    Tim had more injuries than I knew about as well as the boots (as we probably all suspected), too.

    From what I have seen of these boots, I expect bootcovers would be the order of the day, if you were using them.

    dpp
    SP Teri boots hurt. That's all I can say. I think they were the ones that did Michelle's feet in back in 97, and the same ones Jenni Kirk complained about.

    I hate my SP Teri's.

  10. #10
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    This is sort of on topic. Apparently 2 of the Skatefans went to see COI practice in Binghamton. Tim was there, skating to Rocket Man. He apparently landed a 4S, which hasn't been seen from him all year. One Skatefan called it a 3S, but when told by the other it was a 4S, said Tim was quite close to her when he hit it, and she couldn't see the revs that well, but said, "That must be why he had such a big smile when he landed it."

    http://www.frogsonice.com/gateway/sk.../msg40726.html http://www.frogsonice.com/gateway/sk.../msg40752.html

    Another thought on this topic would be that possibly Michelle will try these boots to solve her "I need a 3/3, but how do I keep my body from falling to pieces?" problem.

    dpp

  11. #11
    nthuz
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    Originally posted by skatepixie
    Well. I think its often a matter of fit problems, which inovation wont fix in the least. I think a lot is also just that the body can only do so much as well.

    The new design doesnt sound comfortable at all, and the fact that its made by Jackson doesnt comfort me much. I mean, I dont even have an axel, and Jackson doesnt even make a boot as stiff as my new ones. Hello, they think people are gonna do triples on their boots? No way....
    Jackson does make a boot that is for skaters doing triples. I think it is called the "Elite". I know one girl who has three triples and loves them.

  12. #12
    nthuz
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    Originally posted by DORISPULASKI
    .
    Since the USFSA has paid for these boots to be developed, I expect that at inside-US competitions that the judges will Not deduct for the boots, however. Internationally, who knows? If Plush used them, I am sure they would be rapidly accepted. And Speedy was ISU president when clap skates were accepted for speed skating. That should be a leg up for acceptance.

    I don't believe USFS paid anything to any boot company.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by nthuz
    Jackson does make a boot that is for skaters doing triples. I think it is called the "Elite". I know one girl who has three triples and loves them.
    Yes, and these boots are insanely stiff! I have had a pair for about a year and they have not broken in at all--not one crease! Of course they also don't fit me. :(

    Next week my new boots will arrive, and they are not Jacksons. I didn't have a good experience with the Jacksons. But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't work for others. The thing about it is that everyone's feet are different, and there is no one boot that will work for everyone. Fortunately, we have many manufacturers--Riedell, Sp-Teri, Harlick, Klingbeil, Risport, Graf, Jackson, others that I'm sure I did not mention.

    SP Teri boots hurt. That's all I can say. I think they were the ones that did Michelle's feet in back in 97, and the same ones Jenni Kirk complained about.
    I thought that it was Riedell's that gave Michelle the problems?

  14. #14
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    SK8GR8, You may well be right that USFSA didn't pay. However, when their committee is making suggestions that the boot makers only sell to Americans, it does sound like they may have paid some of the development costs to me. I certainly wouldn't have the guts to make that kind of demand unless I was paying.

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