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Thread: What is the "Protocol" with Protocols?

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    What is the "Protocol" with Protocols?

    Was hoping somebody could provide insight or confirmation of how protocols can be "read" as far as determining the views of individual judges.

    For ISU events (ranging from Senior B to Worlds/Olympics) the marks of the judges are scrambled versus their listing as a judge for the event (i.e., the first column of marks do not necessarily mean they were given by the first judge "listed" and so on) BUT the marks throughout the event in a given column are from the same judge throughout. Meaning, you can look at the first column of marks and compare them for all the skaters and determine "this is how that one judge scored and ranked the skater relatively speaking" Is that right?

    Is this the case in Junior level ISU events as well?

    For National non-ISU events, however, the protocols actually DO reflect the judge list. In particular in the US. Is this correct? Is it true in Canada as well?

    If somebody knows, that would be helpful. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GGoldberg View Post
    Was hoping somebody could provide insight or confirmation of how protocols can be "read" as far as determining the views of individual judges.

    For ISU events (ranging from Senior B to Worlds/Olympics) the marks of the judges are scrambled versus their listing as a judge for the event (i.e., the first column of marks do not necessarily mean they were given by the first judge "listed" and so on) BUT the marks throughout the event in a given column are from the same judge throughout. Meaning, you can look at the first column of marks and compare them for all the skaters and determine "this is how that one judge scored and ranked the skater relatively speaking" Is that right?

    Is this the case in Junior level ISU events as well?

    For National non-ISU events, however, the protocols actually DO reflect the judge list. In particular in the US. Is this correct? Is it true in Canada as well?

    If somebody knows, that would be helpful. Thanks.
    As I understand it, the description you gave in the second paragraoph is incorrest. The order of the judges is scrambled anew for each skater. This is done precisely so that the reader cannot say, judge number three (whoever that might be) gave higher scores to skater X than to skater Y.

    For lower level events (not sure about junior international events), as well as for national events at the discretion of the national federation, all judges are listed in the same order, that being the order of the official listing (no anonymity).

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    Thanks for your reply Mathman. The scrambling is absurd in my opinion.

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    I think the point is that the ISU really, really, really doesn't want anyone to be able to make an educated guess about what any individual judge did, named or unnamed.

    When the IJS first came out they had an even sillier level of cloaking -- the computer randomly tossed out some of the judges marks altogether, so that we did not even know which marks were included in the scores, much less which judge gave them. This was abandoned a while back, not because it was foolish but because it was expensive, They had to pay for three extra judges to sit in the judges' box pretending to mark the skaters along with the real judges. (Of course the individual judge did not know until afterward whether he or she was a real judge or a pretend judge for that competition -- that was determined by the computer.)

    There is a proposal on the table for the next ISU Congress in a couple of months to do away with anonymous judging altogether, but Mr. Cinquanta is already on record as opposing it.

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    Mr. Cinquanta should not be allowed to be the head of the ISU any longer. It is time for him to be replaced. I still don't understand how one man can be allowed to President of the ISU for something like 20 years and why it has taken so long to implement term limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    Mr. Cinquanta should not be allowed to be the head of the ISU any longer. It is time for him to be replaced. I still don't understand how one man can be allowed to President of the ISU for something like 20 years and why it has taken so long to implement term limits.
    Cinquanta cannot be replaced because he said so. The ISU Constitution forbade him to continue in office past 2014. Cinquanta's solution was to set aside this provision of the Constitution and continue as president anyway.

    His argument in justifying this action was that only he had the business acumen to guide the ISU into the post-Sochi period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Cinquanta cannot be replaced because he said so. The ISU Constitution forbade him to continue in office past 2014. Cinquanta's solution was to set aside this provision of the Constitution and continue as president anyway.

    His argument in justifying this action was that only he had the business acumen to guide the ISU into the post-Sochi period.
    His politicking style reminds me of Berlusconi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Cinquanta cannot be replaced because he said so. The ISU Constitution forbade him to continue in office past 2014. Cinquanta's solution was to set aside this provision of the Constitution and continue as president anyway.

    His argument in justifying this action was that only he had the business acumen to guide the ISU into the post-Sochi period.
    And he still has to be elected every so often? If so, when? Or is he in situ like a dictator until he gets ousted?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrandSophy View Post
    And he still has to be elected every so often? If so, when? Or is he in situ like a dictator until he gets ousted?!
    The President stands for election every four years. Cinquanta was first elected in 1994 by a political maneuver that kept the figure skating candidate, Sonia Bianchetti, off the ballot. Cinquanta was re-elected in 1998, 2002, 2006, and 2010. When 2014 came he was ineligible to run because of age. So instead of holding an election he just decided to extend his term by two more years.

    He is expected to step down in 2016, at which time there will be a new election. Term limits are scheduled to go into effect starting then, which will limit future ISU presidents to three terms (unless the new president decides to set the term limits aside. ) Most observers think that Didier Gailhaguet is being groomed as Cinquanta's successor.

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