Who is practicing new Quads? Which ones?

Maria Victoria · Apr 19, 2014

^Reminds me a bit of the philosophical question "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" In the case though of Yuzuru's 4Los, even in the absence of a video, there were many witnesses including Yuzuru's fellow skaters. In any case, I'm confident Yuzuru will be able to execute the 4 Lo where it matters, i.e., in actual competition, and silence any doubts.

aschiutza · Apr 19, 2014

Plushenko was very positive that in the future managing the 4 Axel could be possible. The question is how much energy it sucks from a skater and if he would be able to do the rest of the program.

The youngster nowadays learn much earlier the big jumps, i remember the time when skaters in their low 20 still didn't managed the 3Axel or 3-3 combination. Sport is evolving, this is good.

It remain to be seen what toll so many quads are puting on the skaters bodies. A natural privileged skater might need less to do and survive longer, but a lot of skters might get injuries from doing different quads, as they need to repeat each one in training many times.

NMURA · Apr 19, 2014

littlexflower said:
I haven't no idea why the organization of SOI in Japan has published a lot of performances so far but kept those containing Yuzuru's 4Lo under public's eyes. Maybe they save them for the later documentaries or DVDs or something?

Just because it wasn't planned to broadcast? If he landed the 4Lo at SOI Tokyo, TV Tokyo wouldn't have missed it.

LRK · Apr 19, 2014

aschiutza said:
Plushenko was very positive that in the future managing the 4 Axel could be possible. The question is how much energy it sucks from a skater and if he would be able to do the rest of the program.

The youngster nowadays learn much earlier the big jumps, i remember the time when skaters in their low 20 still didn't managed the 3Axel or 3-3 combination. Sport is evolving, this is good.

It remain to be seen what toll so many quads are puting on the skaters bodies. A natural privileged skater might need less to do and survive longer, but a lot of skters might get injuries from doing different quads, as they need to repeat each one in training many times.

From a recent Plushy interview:

HealthyLivinG Magazine: What is next in figure skating?

Evgeni Plushenko: After some time they’ll learn all of the quadruple jumps; five quads in a program will become the norm, and it will be a real thing, true figure skating, as figure skating is not only an art, a ballet, not only beautiful skating; first of all, it is a sport; that’s why men’s figure skating must include quadruple jumps.

HealthyLivinG Magazine: Are you saying that the human limit is a quadruple axel?

Evgeni Plushenko: I think there are no limits in sports. They always move forward. First, the athletes will learn all quads, then 4.5 quads, and in some 50-70 years there will be a quintuple jump, I’m sure. Maybe in 100 years, but it will happen. There will be combinations of two quads. I know because I was training a 4.5 axel and two toe loop quad combination. If I jumped it, I think guys will jump it too—after some time maybe. There will be different athletes, different gear, lighter boots and blades. One hundred years ago folks used to jump a single jump; now a quad is a norm. Just give it time.

Meoima · Apr 19, 2014

LRK said:
From a recent Plushy interview:

HealthyLivinG Magazine: What is next in figure skating?

Evgeni Plushenko: After some time they’ll learn all of the quadruple jumps; five quads in a program will become the norm, and it will be a real thing, true figure skating, as figure skating is not only an art, a ballet, not only beautiful skating; first of all, it is a sport; that’s why men’s figure skating must include quadruple jumps.

HealthyLivinG Magazine: Are you saying that the human limit is a quadruple axel?

Evgeni Plushenko: I think there are no limits in sports. They always move forward. First, the athletes will learn all quads, then 4.5 quads, and in some 50-70 years there will be a quintuple jump, I’m sure. Maybe in 100 years, but it will happen. There will be combinations of two quads. I know because I was training a 4.5 axel and two toe loop quad combination. If I jumped it, I think guys will jump it too—after some time maybe. There will be different athletes, different gear, lighter boots and blades. One hundred years ago folks used to jump a single jump; now a quad is a norm. Just give it time.

I am very very worried about the future of folks that will soon to be Plushy's students.

Don't get me wrong, I like the quads. But human body has its limit. 5 quads a free skate all season would kill even someone has strong built like Javi. :disapp:

LRK · Apr 19, 2014

Meoima said:
I am very very worried about the future of folks that will soon to be Plushy's students.
Don't get me wrong, I like the quads. But human body has its limit. 5 quads a free skate all season would kill even someone has strong built like Javi. :disapp:

He did say "after some time maybe", so not sure what timeframe he had in mind - note that he thought the quint might happen in 50-70 years. So earlier than that, presumably - but there is no saying how much earlier. Also, I don't think anyone needs to tell Plushy about injuries.

ETA - Maybe this is relevant too then - the interview continues:

HealthyLivinG Magazine: And spine disks—will they will be lighter too?

Evgeni Plushenko: [chuckles] Well, medicine moves forward too, so lighter spine disks are a possibility. I am looking at my son, how fast his development is—running around and speaking at only one-years old—and understand that these new people who are being born now are already different from us; and all of that, including quads, faster spins, will be a new normal for them. Though there will be injuries and surgeries still.

karne · Apr 19, 2014

Meoima said:
I am very very worried about the future of folks that will soon to be Plushy's students.
Don't get me wrong, I like the quads. But human body has its limit. 5 quads a free skate all season would kill even someone has strong built like Javi. :disapp:

Given Plushy's history and his previous remarks, I think any student of his would be treated gently and always have their health as his priority.

But did you miss the part when he gave a very long timeline on these things?

Meoima · Apr 19, 2014

karne said:
Given Plushy's history and his previous remarks, I think any student of his would be treated gently and always have their health as his priority.
But did you miss the part when he gave a very long timeline on these things?

Given the current situation of figure skating and ISU's finances, I am very gloomy about Plushy's vision. I mean, I like Plushy very much, but... I am not sure that we will live up to the day 5 quads a free skate is norm.

even ISU does not seems to live up to that day.

giulia95 · Apr 20, 2014

karne said:
Given Plushy's history and his previous remarks, I think any student of his would be treated gently and always have their health as his priority.

But did you miss the part when he gave a very long timeline on these things?

:agree:

zamboni step · Apr 20, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I would love to see more of the young ladies performing quads. Developing artistry is nice and all, but being the first woman to land a 4T, especially under scrutiny of CoP would be legendary.

Brandon Mroz will never be a World Champion but to be the first guy to do a 4Z (the hardest jump ever executed) automatically makes up for it.

Anyone with two eyes can plainly see Miki's 4S at JW (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1331g-qcI) should not have been ratified as the first ever quad (it was almost <<). So, the honour of legitimately getting the first quad landed by a lady is still up for grabs.

Miki's first ratified quad was at the 2002-2003 JGPF.

elif · Apr 20, 2014

I'm sure peoples in doubles days didn't think skaters could skate with 5-6 triples. Technology is changing.

HanDomi · Apr 21, 2014

First time I see video of such method( actually I know about method, but never saw video of it :biggrin:

) of practicing quad jump:

http://instagram.com/p/nD3IanrM6I/

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 21, 2014

The harness? Or the fear of the Zamboni about to run over you if you fall?

Meoima · Apr 21, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
The harness? Or the fear of the Zamboni about to run over you if you fall?

Maybe both. :biggrin:

I bet it's very effective.

sarukou · Apr 21, 2014

I wonder why Reynolds' quad loop attempts haven't been mentioned yet. He's been landing them in practice since 2010, it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oexjof0UvyA
IIRC, he even attempted it in competition a few times a couple of seasons ago, but was unsuccessful. This one looks fairly close though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWTWZeFAM0c&t=0m59s

nimi · Apr 22, 2014

^ Hadn't seen those! I have a soft spot for Kevin so I kinda hope he'd be the first to get 4loop ratified. Too bad he gets UR calls and downgrades so often...

Poice · Apr 22, 2014

nimi said:
^ Hadn't seen those! I have a soft spot for Kevin so I kinda hope he'd be the first to get 4loop ratified. Too bad he gets UR calls and downgrades so often...

Judges just don't like loops. That's why only few ladies attempt combination 3+3L (Mao and Adelina?). I think the first man to land 4L in competition will be Javier or Yuzuru (or some hotheaded junior

). Both have great technique and can afford mistakes.

elif · Apr 22, 2014

Poice said:
Judges just don't like loops. That's why only few ladies attempt combination 3+3L (Mao and Adelina?).

Miki Ando did it at 2007 too. Bu rules are changed after that.

Duality · Apr 22, 2014

Petrov said that he was practicing 4Lo and 4T and 4Lo was easier for him than 4T.

Kovtun said that he would like to try 4F in practices but he would not use this jump in competitions during this quad.

CarneAsada · Apr 22, 2014

I hope the first ratified 4Lo comes from Hanyu. Maybe he can then use it to replace that dratted 4S.

elif said:
Miki Ando did it at 2007 too. Bu rules are changed after that.

Miki Ando was doing 3-3Lo combinations the entire Vancouver quad. Her last ratified one was in the 2008-09 season. Her last attempt was at the 2010 GPF where she did one that was called <<. From this quad, aside from Asada and Sotnikova, Samantha Cesario attempts a 3Lo-3Lo combination that never gets ratified, and Caroline Zhang was doing one in 2012 (I think?) that was always called <<.

Who is practicing new Quads? Which ones?

Maria Victoria

aschiutza

NMURA

LRK

Meoima

Match Penalty

LRK

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Meoima

Match Penalty

giulia95

zamboni step

elif

HanDomi

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Meoima

Match Penalty

sarukou

nimi

Poice

elif

Duality

CarneAsada

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