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Thread: Bazarova / Deputat teams up for New Partnership (to be coached by Vasiliev)

  1. #16
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I agree that Larionov's new partnership is at moderate to large disadvantage in comparison with Vera's new partnership. I would say closer to large rather than moderate because of sitting out the whole season (and maybe longer), low level of his new partner and when he can eventually compete he will be very close to 30 years old. That's quite a few things going against them. Also, they will be Mozer's number 3 pair, and if Tarasova-Morozov improve as quickly as Stolbova-Klimov did, Larionov may find himself number 4 pair under Mozer. Will Mozer invest as much attention/time/energy into pair 3 or 4?
    That's also true about his age, yes. I will say about Mozer though that it's fairly clear she didn't take to Vera and does like Yuri though, so we will see how she treats him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    That's also true about his age, yes. I will say about Mozer though that it's fairly clear she didn't take to Vera and does like Yuri though, so we will see how she treats him.
    let's jut say Mozer and Yuri
    made a gift to Vera

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    That's also true about his age, yes. I will say about Mozer though that it's fairly clear she didn't take to Vera and does like Yuri though, so we will see how she treats him.
    It is not about whether she likes Yuri and how she wants to treat him, but whether she will have the time to give his new partnership full attention. Volosozhar-Trankov will be her number one for as long as they compete, and Stolbova-Klimov improved so dramatically that there are no doubts that they are number two. The Federation will expects now good results from both those pairs and anything less will be viewed as failure for the Federation. So being number three on her priority list is not very good for Larionov's new pair, and considering that Larionov will be starting from scratch with his new partner, they will need a lot more attention and input from their coach than they would need if it was already established pair. They will need to re-learn timing on throw jumps, side by side jumps, twist, I am not sure if she has triple twist or it that will be completely new element for her, (she also doesn't look as slim as Vera so it may be slightly harder for him to do twists and lifts than he is used to)... Volosozhar-Trankov spoke in their interview a few years ago how hard it was to gel together, to match their elements, and at that time they both were pretty decent skaters (let's say around 4-6 at the worlds). So how much more attention from their coach will be needed to do that with a partner whose skills are much weaker than his? It would be different if they were the only high level pair their coach has, but being number 3 (and maybe even number 4 because Tarasova-Morozov are becoming quite decent and won't have to face those issues of trying to gel). That's another advantage Bazarova-Deputat have - they are very likely to become number 1, and the worse case scenario number 2. Vasiliev will have much more time for them.

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    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    That's all fair but I don't think it necessarily means e's in a worse position- even with Vera, he was going to be at best Mozer's #3 team, maybe her #4.

    Zabijako does not appear to have a triple twist, but the height difference between she and her old partner was only 5.5 inches, so that may be why. The lack of height difference may have made it very hard for them.

    I agree she does not look as slight as Vera, and she is one inch taller. That said, she also looks slightly more muscular, so she may be able to offer Larinov more help in some of the elements due to added strength than Vera could.

    At heart though, I don't think we disagree- we are basically arguing over technicalities.

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    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    That's also true about his age, yes. I will say about Mozer though that it's fairly clear she didn't take to Vera and does like Yuri though, so we will see how she treats him.
    That's something I just don't get it. Obviously Mozer knows better than I do, and she knows Vera better than I/us but I just don't understand why would she choose him and not Vera? She is much better than him, even with her little sbs jump.
    Is it maybe because it's easier to find a girl rather than a man as partner?

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    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    That's something I just don't get it. I no Mozer knows better than I do, and she knows Vera better than I/us but I just don't understand why would she choose him and not Vera? She is much better than him, even with her little sbs jump.
    Is it maybe because it's easier to find a girl rather than a man as partner?
    On Vera's v/k page someone appearing/claiming to be Vera (but who I am NOT 100% sure is) and answering questions from her fans said that she did not remember any real conflict with Mozer, but that Mozer carefully monitored her weight and at hte beginning of the season she put on 2-3 kg and muscles appeared because Mozer told her to. She also said she is grateful to Mozer for this though, so who knows.

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    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    On Vera's v/k page someone appearing/claiming to be Vera (but who I am NOT 100% sure is) and answering questions from her fans said that she did not remember any real conflict with Mozer, but that Mozer carefully monitored her weight and at hte beginning of the season she put on 2-3 kg and muscles appeared because Mozer told her to. She also said she is grateful to Mozer for this though, so who knows.
    No I was not implying that she had a bad relationship with Mozer. I just don't get Mozer's choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    That's all fair but I don't think it necessarily means e's in a worse position- even with Vera, he was going to be at best Mozer's #3 team, maybe her #4.

    Zabijako does not appear to have a triple twist, but the height difference between she and her old partner was only 5.5 inches, so that may be why. The lack of height difference may have made it very hard for them.

    I agree she does not look as slight as Vera, and she is one inch taller. That said, she also looks slightly more muscular, so she may be able to offer Larinov more help in some of the elements due to added strength than Vera could.

    At heart though, I don't think we disagree- we are basically arguing over technicalities.
    I think he is in worse position if he and Vera stayed at Mozer, because they wouldn't have to be relearning thee majority of their elements, so being 3rd (or even 4th) would still not need as much time and attention from their coach as he needs when he is starting with someone new from zero. And he is definitely at worse position with his new partner than Vera is with her new partner.

    As you said, Zabijako is tiny bit taller and more muscled - the problem is that muscles are heavy. Vera is thinner and not as muscular. I don't know how easy is it to adjust to lifting a different weight, but if there is some let's say 5 kilos difference between Vera and Zabijako, lifting it above your head must feel much heavier! (and not sure whether her muscles will help with the twist, or, on the contrary, having heavier body will make it slightly harder, especially if she has never done triple twists). Well, we will see. They have a year. Maybe having the year without being able to compete internationally will turn lucky for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    As you said, Zabijako is tiny bit taller and more muscled - the problem is that muscles are heavy. Vera is thinner and not as muscular. I don't know how easy is it to adjust to lifting a different weight, but if there is some let's say 5 kilos difference between Vera and Zabijako, lifting it above your head must feel much heavier! (and not sure whether her muscles will help with the twist, or, on the contrary, having heavier body will make it slightly harder, especially if she has never done triple twists). Well, we will see. They have a year. Maybe having the year without being able to compete internationally will turn lucky for them.
    I do remember though that when Belbin / Agosto went to Linichuk in 2008, her first instruction was for Tanith to gain 10 pounds of muscle. It made the lifts easier. So even if certain elements get harder, the female partner gaining muscle may mean she can provide better support without relying on the male in certain elements. Just a theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyanka View Post
    I do remember though that when Belbin / Agosto went to Linichuk in 2008, her first instruction was for Tanith to gain 10 pounds of muscle. It made the lifts easier. So even if certain elements get harder, the female partner gaining muscle may mean she can provide better support without relying on the male in certain elements. Just a theory.
    But they didn't do over head lifts, the dance lifts don't have to last as long, and they didn't do twists. I don't think dance is comparable to pairs in this regard.

  11. #26
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    But they didn't do over head lifts, the dance lifts don't have to last as long, and they didn't do twists. I don't think dance is comparable to pairs in this regard.
    I do think the girl having some muscle does help the man in getting up and down from the overhead lifts, as well as in most (but perhaps not all) overhead lift positions. Any man would rather lift a 110 pound woman with the muscle to help him (even, I think, overhead) than a 100 pound woman who is essentially a sack of potatoes.

    Megan Duhamel comes to mind. She is 48 kg. You are not going to convince me that any partner of hers would rather she weighed less but lost all of her muscle. By comparison Bazarova is 46 kg despite being 5 inches taller than Duhamel. That difference is muscle. You are not going to convince me that any man, given the choice, would not rather lift Duhamel even if you made their heights identical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I do think the girl having some muscle does help the man in getting up and down from the overhead lifts, as well as in most (but perhaps not all) overhead lift positions. Any man would rather lift a 110 pound woman with the muscle to help him (even, I think, overhead) than a 100 pound woman who is essentially a sack of potatoes.

    Megan Duhamel comes to mind. She is 48 kg. You are not going to convince me that any partner of hers would rather she weighed less but lost all of her muscle. By comparison Bazarova is 46 kg despite being 5 inches taller than Duhamel. That difference is muscle. You are not going to convince me that any man, given the choice, would not rather lift Duhamel even if you made their heights identical.
    I don't know, I am not a pair male and I am not trying to convince you anything. Unless you are the one who does the lifting, you never know. I would probably go for the least heavy lady, but how much a few kilos make a difference I really don't know. When you are lifting, it is also about technique. So maybe it is not as important whether she has more or less muscles and weighs a few kilos more or less, but whether they both managed to lifting technique correctly or whether they are just muscling it through.

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    Vasilisa Davankova will skate with Maxim Bobrov:
    http://forum.fsonline.ru/index.php?/.../page__st__360

    whose previous partner Oksana Nagalaty is serving a year ban for doping
    he is amongst the tallest junior pair skater from Russia along with Morozov and Zakroev
    he is younger than Deputat so this will be good they can stay in juniors

    bad news, Bobrov is not on par with Davankova and has weaker skating skills

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Vasilisa Davankova will skate with Maxim Bobrov:
    http://forum.fsonline.ru/index.php?/.../page__st__360

    whose previous partner Oksana Nagalaty is serving a year ban for doping
    he is amongst the tallest junior pair skater from Russia along with Morozov and Zakroev
    he is younger than Deputat so this will be good they can stay in juniors

    bad news, Bobrov is not on par with Davankova and has weaker skating skills
    I don't think there is any junior eligible male who is on par with Davankova's skating skills, so at least Bobrov ticks three boxes - he is tall enough for her, he was good enough to be sent to compete internationally at JGP events and he is young enough that they can spend another 2-3 seasons at juniors. Within those 2-3 years he will have plenty of time to catch up. Actually, this pairing will sort out Russian problem- if the rules don't change back, all previous Russian successful junior pairs are due to move to seniors because Zakroev, Moroskin, Morozov, Bich and Souza-Kordyeru aged out from juniors, so there was no Russian junior pair that could potentially medal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I don't think there is any junior eligible male who is on par with Davankova's skating skills, so at least Bobrov ticks three boxes - he is tall enough for her, he was good enough to be sent to compete internationally at JGP events and he is young enough that they can spend another 2-3 seasons at juniors. Within those 2-3 years he will have plenty of time to catch up. Actually, this pairing will sort out Russian problem- if the rules don't change back, all previous Russian successful junior pairs are due to move to seniors because Zakroev, Moroskin, Morozov, Bich and Souza-Kordyeru aged out from juniors, so there was no Russian junior pair that could potentially medal.
    Davankova was a complete package except that nature, unfortunately watching her modelesque sister's height, she will continue to grow
    skating skills, maybe that can be improve in one or two more seasons
    but watching Bobrov he has a lot of catching up to do, he is weaker than Davankova in all aspects except height

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