Ice Skating community needs to regain control of our sport - Petition to remove Cinquanta

I very much agree with different points (most of them) in this petition, especially kicking out Cinquanta.
However, the point about Adelina undermines the purpose of the petition. I do not agree with the judges at Sochi, but calling out skaters like this is totally unprofessional and it ruins the whole message which is supposed to be more important than the ladies event in Sochi.
There is already a petition about Sotnikova vs Yuna Kim judging.
This petition is full of rhetoric and personal perspective, which is unacceptable for me.

Blades of Passion said:

What do you find petty about what was written about Adelina in the petition?

The general idea is that nobody thinks Adelina should have scored as high as she did, even if they think she deserved to win. The petition is not stating that Adelina robbed Kim or Kostner. It's stating there was a clear case of judging fraud and/or incompetence on display, and that Cinquanta has done nothing but ignore it. Perhaps the petition could have slightly better wording, but the points are pretty clear.

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Yup and skating faces a whole host of other issues. It has never been more irrelevant to American audiences. You can barely catch figure skating competitions on tv anymore. There are issues with how judges are selected and trained. One thing I'd like to see is some kind of reality/docu type show that covers skaters in the off season. Like take us into their training process, let us get to know their personalities, and teach audiences about the technical aspects sport.

nimi said:

Blast from the past: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/winter/2003-03-25-skating-wsf-announcement_x.htm

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Unfortunately money blocked the 2002 attempt.

But now the ISU has no money.

Blades of Passion said:

Unfortunately money blocked the 2002 attempt.

But now the ISU has no money.

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True, but I don't think the IOC cares much about the judging. They recognize that figure skating is a niche sport except at the Olympics, and casual fans are always going to watch figure skating at the Games regardless of whether they like the judging. Since the IOC isn't particularly impacted on whether something like Skate Canada gets good television ratings in 2016, they aren't incentivized to initiate any sort of major changes that impact figure skating outside of the Olympics.

Blades of Passion said:

Unfortunately money blocked the 2002 attempt.

But now the ISU has no money.

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Was it all about the money? I always had the impression the big federations were afraid to make that leap of faith.
The WSF counted on the USFSA to join in quickly, then maybe Canada to follow, and then go from there. As it happened, the project never really gained momentum. Even if both NA feds had joined the cause it would have been very difficult to get all the rest onboard, as there was no immediate clear incentive or benefit for every fed involved, apart from idealistic stuff, I mean.

signed.

I don't think the ISU can or should be saved in its current form. The quicker it goes belly up the quicker a better organization (devoted to figure skating alone) can be built. If skating has to miss an olympics or two then too bad better no skating than more Sochi style judging.

this makes sense , so count me in.

HanDomi said:

Really ? I thinked that nothing can beat 6.0 the most cheatable system in history

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Anna K. said:

Only figure skating can beat figure skating

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:yes:

I wonder how the Speed skating world feels about him. It's not like that sport has been thriving on a global scale.

lcd said:

I wonder how the Speed skating world feels about him. It's not like that sport has been thriving on a global scale.

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I have a suspicion that speed skating community blame him for being focused on figure skating

However, the article that nimi linked to says he's been taking also important places in IOC by the year 2003:

nimi said:

Blast from the past: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/winter/2003-03-25-skating-wsf-announcement_x.htm

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One of the WSF's main aims is to separate the governance of figure skating from speedskating. The ISU oversees both, and Cinquanta is a former speedskater. The WSF, in a video presentation, called him "hopelessly out of touch," "hopelessly evasive" and "hopelessly misleading."

"The facts and reality prove that these comments do not deserve comment," Cinquanta said.[2003]



If this is true that the sponsors and the money have withdrawn dramatically from US figure skating since, the USFSA might regret their choice back then. However, they might also have little motive to make their choice today. What’s the point to fight about a sport that’s been milked to death already?

Does anybody know how the WSF story ended? Did they try to develop any non-Olympic format?

Anna K. said:

Does anybody know how the WSF story ended? Did they try to develop any non-Olympic format?

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Things got pretty ugly. I believe that some of the main organizers were banned from judging and/or ISU membership. The FSU thread below contains a lot of info and a link to Dick Button's statement/press conference about the WFS. (Mods, not sure if posting this link breaks any GS rules. If it does, please do what you have to do.)

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...ned-to-the-World-Skating-Federation-(aka-WSF)

As I recall, the World Skating Federation never tried to organize any skating events. They put their entire effort into legal challenges to the ISU on the grounds of monopoly and restraint of trade. When these legal challenges failed, the organization was through. The ISU banned the WSF organizers and went on with business as usual.

The WSF made a number of mistakes. They coaxed the USFSA into issuing a statement saying that they agreed with the principles on which the WSF was organized -- fair judging, etc. -- then they advertised, misleadingly, that the USFSA was supporting their move to replace the ISU as the sanctioned figure skating organization in the IOC. This put the WSA on the outs with the leadership of the USFSA.

Also it came out that almost all the skaters who supported the WSF were represented by IMG. It was widely believed that IMG bankrolled the whole protest in order to advance the fortunes of the agency and its clients. The WSF never denied or responded to these charges and refused to say where the money was coming from to pay the lawyers, etc.

That is really the problem with these petitions. Money talks, petitions walk. If the million people who signed the various petitions each sent in ten bucks, Mr. Cinquanta might be compelled to take notice.

Another idiotic petition? Thank you but no thank you. BoP is the biggest troll.

Mathman said:

As I recall, the World Skating Federation never tried to organize any skating events. They put their entire effort into legal challenges to the ISU on the grounds of monopoly and restraint of trade. When these legal challenges failed, the organization was through. The ISU banned the WSF organizers and went on with business as usual.

The WSF made a number of mistakes. They coaxed the USFSA into issuing a statement saying that they agreed with the principles on which the WSF was organized -- fair judging, etc. -- then they advertised, misleadingly, that the USFSA was supporting their move to replace the ISU as the sanctioned figure skating organization in the IOC. This put the WSA on the outs with the leadership of the USFSA.

Also it came out that almost all the skaters who supported the WSF were represented by IMG. It was widely believed that IMG bankrolled the whole protest in order to advance the fortunes of the agency and its clients. The WSF never denied or responded to these charges and refused to say where the money was coming from to pay the lawyers, etc.

That is really the problem with these petitions. Money talks, petitions walk. If the million people who signed the various petitions each sent in ten bucks, Mr. Cinquanta might be compelled to take notice.

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Thank you for the perspective. It's surprising that Dick Button, with his Harvard law background, didn't handle this better. Mis-stating the USFSA's position is especially hard to understand.

Re: $10, I'd consider it money well spent.

drivingmissdaisy said:

I don't think the IOC cares much about the judging. They recognize that figure skating is a niche sport except at the Olympics, and casual fans are always going to watch figure skating at the Games regardless of whether they like the judging. Since the IOC isn't particularly impacted on whether something like Skate Canada gets good television ratings in 2016, they aren't incentivized to initiate any sort of major changes that impact figure skating outside of the Olympics.

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Hmm, I'm not sure why you've brought up the IOC. Of course they don't directly involve themselves with sporting events outside of the Olympics. It's just their rules that determine which direction a sport might take to maintain eligibility.

I'm sure the IOC would be happy if ice skating brought in higher ratings and sponsors. The Winter Olympics are actually very much in need of it.

Your label of "niche sport" is the problem we're facing. The sport has been much more than just niche in the past. It's always going to face certain issues in terms of being one of the most widespread activities out there (cost, availability, time and effort it takes to learn), but there's no reason why it shouldn't be capable of having a large following. It should be something that many people watch multiple times per year and talk about with glee at school/work the next day.

Mafke said:

I don't think the ISU can or should be saved in its current form. The quicker it goes belly up the quicker a better organization (devoted to figure skating alone) can be built. If skating has to miss an olympics or two then too bad better no skating than more Sochi style judging.

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I agree. I am anxious for the ISU to go bankrupt and be done forever. I am willing to wait 8 years or however long it takes for a completely new organization to take over.

Mathman said:

As I recall, the World Skating Federation never tried to organize any skating events. They put their entire effort into legal challenges to the ISU on the grounds of monopoly and restraint of trade. When these legal challenges failed, the organization was through. The ISU banned the WSF organizers and went on with business as usual.

The WSF made a number of mistakes. They coaxed the USFSA into issuing a statement saying that they agreed with the principles on which the WSF was organized -- fair judging, etc. -- then they advertised, misleadingly, that the USFSA was supporting their move to replace the ISU as the sanctioned figure skating organization in the IOC. This put the WSA on the outs with the leadership of the USFSA.

Also it came out that almost all the skaters who supported the WSF were represented by IMG. It was widely believed that IMG bankrolled the whole protest in order to advance the fortunes of the agency and its clients. The WSF never denied or responded to these charges and refused to say where the money was coming from to pay the lawyers, etc.

That is really the problem with these petitions. Money talks, petitions walk. If the million people who signed the various petitions each sent in ten bucks, Mr. Cinquanta might be compelled to take notice.

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I dont think the WSF was ever going to be a particularly good or fair organization either. For starters it seemed like 95% of it was American. So I am somewhat glad they did not get anywhere. Plus have you ever read the book of disgraced ex ISU judge and WSF member Joe Jackson? Who would ever want someone that biased, hypocritical, and pro American helping to run the sport. However I hope soon something like them, that is more balanced and fair, and represented across the world (not just pro Russian and pro money interest like the ISU, or pro IMG and pro American like the WSF) comes around.

Step 1 Remove Cinquanta.

Step 2 Find decent candidate to replace him. Ideally someone with figure skating sport background, impeccable reputation, ex Marketing / Strategic Consulting / MBA experience / public face optional. ie/ Someone smart and has long term view with keen business sense to pick up the pace and start a snowball effect from a whiff of snowflake.

Steps 3 Regain Public Trust. Reassess the entire judging panel selection process from top to bottom. Including training and qualification. Are they qualified to judge all aspect of PCS for example. Remove conflict of interest, agenda, influencing, remove anonymity. Human being by nature is incapable of being honest 100% the time. You might as well say you don't believe anyone likes money or love their country. Total BS.

Step 4 Accountability and Verifiability. Invest greater use of existing sporting technology and to make the scoring more understandable for and make reference of actual sporting measuring facts in support. Consider revise an info graphic interface to better inform audience of the scoring system.

Step 5 Horizontal integration. Consider figure skating as a truly multidisciplinary sport that involves physical movements, music, choreography, fashion, make up, culture (cinema, theatre, performance art) and market it wisely. Make figure skating relevant to modern times in areas people are interested in. It need a younger audience, people with money who will invest to go and see shows, competitions.

Niche is good if it is properly exploited. Look at X Games. Figure skating is less than Niche at the moment. It does't even seem to have the respect of some of its most ardent fans and insiders. It is an embarrassment and clearly not being managed well compare to 20 years ago. Dwindling attendance figures and lack of real understanding and appreciation of the sport by its leaderships that appears to lack the foresight, knowledge or good will to really push the sport more global and understandable. It is not like the rest of the world beside the big 4 nations are uninterested, but it is more likely they just couldn't 'get in' the old boys club, and especially with the new GP rules, it seems the old boys don't want them in so they can have greater control over the outcome. ie/ Award their own. Look at its strategy, how COP has came about, insist there's never any judging controversy yet Salt lake happened, corrupted judges continue to judge, insist on keep anonymity, alienate audience further, create distrust among skaters and even fans of the sport, contemplate kill short programs, crap prize money for skaters that doesn't command respectability in this capitalist society, especially an expensive sport like this. This gives the federations enormous power over their own skaters, more than they should in an individual sport. There so many thing wrong with it there's no quick fixes unfortunately.

os168 said:

Step 2 Find decent candidate to replace him. Ideally someone with figure skating sport background, impeccable reputation, ex Marketing / Strategic Consulting / MBA experience / public face optional. ie/ Someone smart and has long term view with keen business sense to pick up the pace and start a snowball effect from a whiff of snowflake.

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Strange to say, except for the figure skating background, these qualifications were what people lauded Cinquanta for twenty years ago.