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Thread: Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater "

  1. #136
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    CSG! What do you want to prove?

    Evgeni Viktorovich Plushenko (Russian: About this sound Евге́ний Ви́кторович Плю́щенко​ (help·info); born 3 November 1982) is a retired[1] Russian figure skater. He is the 2006 Olympic gold medalist, 2014 Olympic team gold medalist, 2002 Olympic silver medalist, and 2010 Olympic silver medalist, a three-time World champion (2001, 2003, 2004), a seven-time European champion (2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012), a four-time Grand Prix Final champion (1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2004–05), and a ten-time Russian national champion (1999–2002, 2004–06, 2010, 2012–13). Plushenko is the only figure skater in modern history to have won four Olympic medals competing in four Olympics: 2002 Salt Lake Winter Olympics, 2006 Turin Winter Olympics, 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics, and 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. (Gillis Grafström won four in the early years of the sport, in 1920–1932).

    He won 18 GP
    He has 3 ECH silver medal and 1 silver and 1 bronze WCH medal

    He was out off the podium once since 1998 in any competitons! He was 4th on WCH( 2000, 17.y.o) that was his worse result, but he won the first ECH title in that year.

    Achievements

    Evgeni Plushenko is the only modern figure skater in any discipline to win four medals competing at four Olympics. (Gillis Grafström won four Olympic medals, in 1920–1932, when the athletic requirements of the sport were far lower.)

    Plushenko is the first male skater to perform the Biellmann spin in the senior competition circuit. He is the first skater to perform a 4T–3T–2Lo combination in competition, at the 1999 NHK Trophy (he has since landed the combination 26 times). He is also the first to land a 4T–3T–3Lo combination in competition, at the Cup of Russia 2002 (he has since landed that combination four times so far). He is the only skater to complete the 3A-1/2Lo-3F combination, doing so at the 2002 Olympics and 2004 World Championships. Plushenko is also the first skater to land a 3T–3T–3Lo–2Lo combination, at the 2001 ARD Gala. At the 2006 Russian Figure Skating Championships, he landed a six jump combination (3T–3T–2Lo–2Lo–2Lo–2Lo) in his exhibition program. He did a 3A-3T-3Lo combination at the exhibition finale of the 2006 Olympics.

    Plushenko has landed a consistent 4T in competition, and landed a 4S in Samara, Russia at the second stage of the 2004 Russian Cup series. It is estimated that he has landed a total of about 100 quads in competition.

    Plushenko has worked on and landed 4Lo and 4Lz in practice, as well as a 3A-4T combination ( this was a not too bad attemt there is on Youtube), but has never completed any of them in competition.

    At the age of 16, Plushenko was the youngest male skater to ever receive a perfect score of 6.0. He received a total of seventy five 6.0s before the new Code of Points judging system was introduced. Under the Code of Points system, he has set 13 world record scores (5 in the short program, 4 in free skating, and 4 in the combined total).

    He was the first male skater who was doing the donut spin.

    If anybody missed this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVGRZLmIEIw . This is Plushenko. He inspires many people many skaters on the world.

    I think he has right to be honest.

  2. #137
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Yes, Plushenko was second to Kovtun at Nationals. Clearly to CSG this is proof positive as to Kovtun's greatness, because certainly there's little else in his first two senior seasons to work with - this despite heavy backing from Tarasova and the most powerful federation in the sport. Never mind that Kovtun beat a 31 year old who had been through multiple surgeries and was a couple of months away from yet another spinal surgery. Nope, it's exactly the same as beating Plushenko in his prime!

    "The first skater to land two SP quads in one season" is such a random achievement that I'm not sure why it's even worth discussing. If skaters were allowed two SP quads in Plushenko's heyday, Goebel would have been the first anyway.

    Plushenko isn't randomly bashing young skaters, he's saying that he is not impressed with Kovtun. He's certainly been impressed with other skaters, most notably Hanyu. But then, Yuzuru has been impressive so far in his career.

  3. #138
    Love popcorn, hate horrendous costumes. Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    "The first skater to land two SP quads in one season" is such a random achievement that I'm not sure why it's even worth discussing. If skaters were allowed two SP quads in Plushenko's heyday, Goebel would have been the first anyway.
    Kevin Reynolds is the first and currently the only skater to have landed five quadruple jumps in one competition—at the 2013 Four Continents, he landed two quads in the short program and three in the free skate. I guess we should compare Kovtun to Kevin, not to Plushy you know.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    No you are saying plushenko should deny the reality of kovtun just because he's Russian and they're both russian. That's being delusional! He's not head cheerleader for Russia.
    I didn't say the word 'Russian'. So stop.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaihime View Post
    Lol, he has said some things against other well-established skaters in the past so that first part is not true. The second part is also not true. And althetes in other sports trash talk way more than those in figure skating....FS is child's play

    This man has not changed in last 15 years in both style and personality, so why are people acting so shocked at his bluntness now? And is he lying? Kovtun IS average among the top elites, he doesn't have anything special going for him except for his horrible and inconsistent quads. The man's predictions are usually on point, and I don't see this one being any different. But as of right now, we can't know what's in store for Kovtun in the future. Like Plushenko, we can just wait and see.
    I didn't say Kovtun isn't average. And I also didn't say Kovtun's future is brighter than Plush's past. Are you blind?
    ALL I said that Plush should be more classy. And it's my opinion. If you like athletes trash-talking each other, it's your right. I just don't like it.

  6. #141
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    All I can say is some of the people in here would never survive in the fandoms of motorsports, cricket, football...

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    All I can say is some of the people in here would never survive in the fandoms of motorsports, cricket, football...
    Most valuable comment of the year

  8. #143
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    -That's why some of us are figure skating fans.
    I don't like athletes who disparage each other. It is a matter of personal taste. I can enjoy the performances of Plushenko and Chan ...very much.
    -Just as Plushenko is allowed to 'say it like it is' fans are allowed to do the same. Plushenko is often rude and his remarks about Kovtun especially seem to be more of a petty personal dislike than anything else. That doesn't mean he isn't also gracious to those he likes, this doesn't cancel out his work as a figure skater, it's just my opinion that his remarks about a skater who is still a teen, and possibly lacking in confidence already, could be more generous.
    You can be truthful and tactful at the same time...or are all Japanese skaters liars and flatterers?

  9. #144
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    Kovtun is not exactly the world's most angelic little darling, either, and is by no means innocent.

    ..........perhaps both sides need to call one of these magic numbers on the front page?

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Yes, Plushenko was second to Kovtun at Nationals. Clearly to CSG this is proof positive as to Kovtun's greatness, because certainly there's little else in his first two senior seasons to work with - this despite heavy backing from Tarasova and the most powerful federation in the sport. Never mind that Kovtun beat a 31 year old who had been through multiple surgeries and was a couple of months away from yet another spinal surgery. Nope, it's exactly the same as beating Plushenko in his prime!

    "The first skater to land two SP quads in one season" is such a random achievement that I'm not sure why it's even worth discussing. If skaters were allowed two SP quads in Plushenko's heyday, Goebel would have been the first anyway.

    Plushenko isn't randomly bashing young skaters, he's saying that he is not impressed with Kovtun. He's certainly been impressed with other skaters, most notably Hanyu. But then, Yuzuru has been impressive so far in his career.
    He said "nothing special" and "good average", and then lauds Voronov/Menshov in the next breath. He totally has it out for Kovtun.

    Little else? He won the JGPF, he won two GP silvers and qualified for the GPF in his first senior Grand Prix season (Hanyu, by comparison, came 4th and 7th in his first Grand Prix season). He placed 4th at Worlds in his first full season as a senior. He won Russian Nationals after his 3rd attempt, and first full season as a senior, and easily defeated the heavy favourite that was Plushenko, with 2 quads in each program.

    He's landed both his 4S & 4T in the SP three times this year - in each GP event, and Nationals. I think Reynolds is the only other skater (and the first, not Kovtun) to have achieved that, and he has achieved that once internationally (correct me if I'm wrong). (Btw, there's also no guarantee Goebel would have done 2 quads in his SP... Javier can do both quads and does 3 in his FS and yet he only attempts the 4S in his SP.)

    He is also (to my knowledge) the only skater to have landed both a quad and a triple axel in every FS this season (which Hanyu, Chan, and Plushenko haven't done). Other than the GPF, he's landed his 3A and at least one clean quad in every SP (5/6 competitions).

    His skating has a long way to go, but technically - and considering this was his first GP season - he's been actually astonishingly solid.

  11. #146
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Plushenko is so blunt he even stupidly shot himself in the foot by self-admitting "I have no transitions" instead of "I'm looking to build upon the content I currently have" or something smarter like that.
    So you prefer that people lie?

    And you think that talking about what are you going to do in the future of your skating should have any impact on the scores you receive?

    You have a valid point in this thread (about Plushenko perhaps acting like a pop star who is scared of being outdated), but this line of thinking is nothing but nonsense. You're just buying into cultural dependency on empty rhetoric here. Nobody should have to act in any certain manner if it doesn't hurt others.

    If everyone talked openly and honestly, and learned to not get inherently offended by a critical viewpoint, then there wouldn't be so much political/repressive crap in the world.

  12. #147
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Winning the JGPF is such an impressive senior level achievement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Kevin Reynolds is the first and currently the only skater to have landed five quadruple jumps in one competition—at the 2013 Four Continents, he landed two quads in the short program and three in the free skate. I guess we should compare Kovtun to Kevin, not to Plushy you know.
    But obviously, since Reynolds never beat Plushenko, Plushenko isn't jealous of him Even though Kevin has landed multiple quads in his programs several times (and was the first to do so in an SP).

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Winning the JGPF is such an impressive senior level achievement.
    Especially when you weren't even leading after the short program and the main reason you won is that said leader became rather ill...

  14. #149
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    One more thing: if you want to compare him to Hanyu, to be fair you have to take Kovtun's 2013-2014 season as his "first season", as 2010-2011 was Hanyu's "first season", not consider Kovtun as a Junior being thrown into Worlds as his senior debut (or even more laughable WTT as his senior debut). You take the first grand prix season. That is the first full season as a senior.

    Hanyu's first GP season:
    In his first Grand Prix season as a senior, Hanyu got a 4th and 7th on the GP (average score: 205.19), didn't qualify for the GPF, and placed 4th at Nationals. He did earn a silver at 4CC (albeit with a score of 228.01 in a weak field). He failed to qualify for Worlds, but in the following season, he went to Worlds, where he placed 3rd.

    Kovtun's first GP season:
    In his first Grand Prix (and first full) season as a senior, Kovtun got a 2nd and a 2nd on the GP (average score: 239.50), qualified for the GPF, and won the Russian National title. He only came 5th at Euros but with a score of 232.37. He went to Worlds, where he placed 4th.

    For all intents and purposes, Kovtun was a junior competing at 2013 Euros and 2013 Worlds - which was the huge mistake on the Russian Fed's part, being their lone entry. His PCS scores alone nullified any potential shot he had at getting 2 spots for Sochi. But here's the thing: even Hanyu wouldn't have done any better.

    Interestingly, if we take Kovtun's "fasttrack" scenario and apply it to Hanyu... Hanyu's score when he won Junior Worlds was 216.10 (PB at the time) -- say instead of Junior Worlds the JSF pulled a RusFed and sent him to the 2013 Worlds where Kovtun came 17th... this score would have put him 14th (11th at best with higher PCS scores, and still over 10 points from 10th). Even Hanyu as a Junior fast-tracked to Senior worlds definitely wouldn't have earned 2 spots for Russia as was expected of Kovtun. And say Hanyu in his first senior year had qualified for Worlds at Japan Nationals in 2011... his score at 4CC (easily his PB that season) still wouldn't have come 10th or better, and his Worlds debut would have been out of the top 10 as Kovtun's was.

  15. #150
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    Uh yeah... let's not compare skaters please...

    This thread was about Plush's comments towards Kovtun, let's keep it that way.

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