Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater " | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater "

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Uncle Dick indeed, lol :laugh:

Hah, he makes a good point. Plushenko wouldn't actually waste his time commenting on Kovtun if he truly were just an average skater. Although I'm sure he can't resist taking jabs at the guy who whooped him at Russian nationals either.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Plushenko 2001 LP on Euros. He was 18 years and 3 month easily beat Yagudin.. He was younger than Kovtun now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWM2NESsGw CSG do you really think Kovtun is better?? :biggrin:
So consistent in all his jumps, I dislike Plushy's troublesome tongue, but he has always been greater than lots of skaters out there.
But you know, according to CSG's logic, age is relevance. We shouldn't comparing their ages. :biggrin:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Plushenko 2001 LP on Euros. He was 18 years and 3 month easily beat Yagudin.. 4-3-3 and 4T..He was younger than Kovtun now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWM2NESsGw CSG do you really think Kovtun is better?? :biggrin:

I never said Kovtun is better. But he's certainly more than "nothing special".

And I don't care if he was 18 or 28 at the time.

FYI, Kovtun also landed 2 quads at 2013 Russian Nationals, Euros and Worlds at the age of 18, with CoP demands. (Plu did a 4-3-2 btw in that Euros LP)
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
So consistent in all his jumps, I dislike Plushy's troublesome tongue, but he has always been greater that lots of skaters out there.
But you know, according to CSG's logic, age is relevance. We shouldn't comparing their ages. :biggrin:

You know that is interesting Plushenko says something he receives a thread immediately and will be many comments on him...:D He is the most famous well-known figure skater ever. Like him or not everybody has opinion about him nobody is indifferente. For me he is an awesome person and I know him more than anyone else in this forum.
And that is also interesting
-many people adore him-not like adore him-because of his personality..
-many people hate him because of his personality..
-many people adore his skating
-many people hate his skating
-many people said he isn't artistry
-many people say he is the real artist on ice
-many people say he is ugly
-many people say he is beautiful and the sexiest man on ice..
-many people say he is very kind person
-many people say he has a troublesome tongue...

this is totally contradiction... that is true he inspires many people on the world..after Sochi he has more fans especilally form US. They began to discover his personality and skating..This link was posted by Plushenko news in last week..a quote from it..http://keiblackthorne.deviantart.com/art/sochi-dreams-zhenya-434676863

"Now, as I said, I'm his newly fan. And when I read some articles I always doubt him, I admit that. Until I read in forum made by his truest of fans who followed him all around the world(fans that are from Japan, Italy and other parts of the world). And they know him the best(are u one of those who follow him around the world?) and I read his Another Show.( his biography) What I got about him makes me feel that he's such an almost perfect man. Being strong, kind hearted, generous, strong heart, sweetheart, brotherly-fatherly-husbandly-childly love, spiritual, etc.
Yes, the only flaws I see in him is that he's sometimes being too honest at some wrong parts...:biggrin:"

another quote from last week:

"Zhenya, I cannot say in a word how much impression, courage, pleasure, dream, and hope you gave me.
Even a million times thank you would not be enough."

http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=151&start=540 Art inspired by Zhenya

and so on, and so on I can show thousand of messages like these...because he is unique.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I never said Kovtun is better. But he's certainly more than "nothing special".

That's not what Plushenko said, either.

Actually, I find both American nineteen year olds to be more impressive than Kovtun in pretty much every way possible, even if they don't have the same medal count he has.
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
It's practically impossible to compare these two skaters. How do you compare a retired Olympic champion to a much younger skater who is just in the early stages of his career? It's difficult enough comparing contemporary rivals against one another (eg. Chan vs. Hanyu). It's even more impossible to do so when comparing 2 skaters from 2 different eras of very different age groups.

It would be like comparing Dick Button to Plushenko. Button is a 2-Time Olympic Gold Medalist and the first man to do the triple axel. But he was competing in a totally different era and a totally different system. How does one determine whether Button or Plushenko is 'greater'?
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
That's not what Plushenko said, either.

Actually, I find both American nineteen year olds to be more impressive than Kovtun in pretty much every way possible, even if they don't have the same medal count he has.

:thumbsup:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ That is, the great Dick Button was the first man to do a double Axel. :)

According to Wikipedia, the first man to do a triple Axel was Vern Taylor at the 1978 World Championships. Taylor got 12th, so Kovtun, with his fine showing this year, is better. :yes:
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
It's practically impossible to compare these two skaters. How do you compare a retired Olympic champion to a much younger skater who is just in the early stages of his career? It's difficult enough comparing contemporary rivals against one another (eg. Chan vs. Hanyu). It's even more impossible to do so when comparing 2 skaters from 2 different eras of very different age groups.
You can compare career development and where people were at different ages. Even without comparing specifics, you can look at it in terms of results, consistency, whether they were considered elite, take into account if they did something special/innovative on the technical side, how good their presentation was. This is something that favors Plushenko in comparison to basically everyone, because he did well at such a young age (he moved up to senior at an age that's not even allowed now). You can also do this looking at entire careers, and say that both Plushenko and Button were excellent skaters who achieved a lot - in some cases, achieved things that are impossible to repeat (e.g. no other US skater will ever win Europeans and nobody will get as many 6.0s as Plushenko did ;)).
 

Components

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
I didn't know Kovtun was "hyped" at all? Was he ever?

The only reason why he is talked about so much is because of the Plushenko "rivalry."
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I didn't know Kovtun was "hyped" at all? Was he ever?

Didn't you hear Tarasova last year? She reckoned Kovtun was the greatest thing since sliced bread - so good, in fact, that not only would he bring home two spots from Worlds, he could bring home three!

She changed her tune pretty fast...AFTER Worlds.
 

surimi

Onward and forward, Sota!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/702033

He said that the best skating in a while comes from Yuzuru, who at 19 show best technique and charisma on ice. But among Russian skaters he commends Voronov and Menshov because they showed good clean skating. Everyone creates hype around one particular skater in whom he seen nothing special. He's a good average skater. We'll just have to wait and see how he does next.

I hope Kovtun proves him wrong there. At the moment, he seems very musical and talented, but a total bundle of nerves when in competition. He still has things to improve - expression, posture, suitable music choices, and jump stability come to mind - and he's nowhere near the wonder that's Hanyu, but he's got a lot of potential. It's understandable that people talk about him, him being the youngest among the other GP/EC/WC Russian males whose competitive careers can be expected to end within a couple of seasons (no idea about Voronov though, his ISU page doesn't load). Fingers crossed for Kovtun in his upcoming season. :yes:
 

caitie

Medalist
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
This is not his place to say. Does he feel guilty for using up the men's spot Kovtun earned or something and is trying to justify it to everybody? Whatever the case, these comments are rude and it's not a good look.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Didn't you hear Tarasova last year? She reckoned Kovtun was the greatest thing since sliced bread - so good, in fact, that not only would he bring home two spots from Worlds, he could bring home three!
Well, I'll say this much: I prefer Kovtun to sliced bread ;) Bread should be fresh, not the nasty sliced stuff that comes packaged!

This is not his place to say. Does he feel guilty for using up the men's spot Kovtun earned or something and is trying to justify it to everybody?
I am sure Plushenko doesn't feel the least bit guilty for getting the Olympic spot, nor should he considering his contribution to the Russian team gold. He may, however, be tired of answering questions about it.

BTW, Kovtun did not earn that spot, other than in the sense of only earning one spot. The Russian fed uses criteria other than just Nationals - as most countries do. If anyone was robbed, it was Sergei Voronov.
 

Components

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Well, I'll say this much: I prefer Kovtun to sliced bread ;) Bread should be fresh, not the nasty sliced stuff that comes packaged!


I am sure Plushenko doesn't feel the least bit guilty for getting the Olympic spot, nor should he considering his contribution to the Russian team gold. He may, however, be tired of answering questions about it.

BTW, Kovtun did not earn that spot, other than in the sense of only earning one spot. The Russian fed uses criteria other than just Nationals - as most countries do. If anyone was robbed, it was Sergei Voronov.

If Team Russia was Team Azerbaijan Plushenko would have been getting 5s and 6s for Components.

He should not have been beating skaters like Voronov or Kovtun; just their components should give them a couple falls advantage over Plushenko in the scoring, if not more...

Plushenko is in no position to call Kovtun an average skater. By comparison, his skating is below Junior quality compared to those men. Even his crossovers & stroking are terrible.
 

Interspectator

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
The Dynamics of the men for team Russia seem more hostile over all than other countries.
You would never hear Chan say 'Oh, Kevin is just average' even if it's true. -And Chan has said some doozies in his lifetime. You wouldn't hear Daiskue say of Machida or Kozuka 'They are average'. Maybe the Russians thrive on subtle, and not so subtle put-downs of each other.
Just because something is the truth, doesn't make it necessary to be said. Machida could say of Hanyu, "His skating skills are merely a good average" --But it is unnecessary, so instead he praises Hanyu for his fighting spirit that helps him win no matter what. Hanyu could say disparaging things about Machida, but instead, he says Machida puts artistry into his programs. I think this helps build up the level of skating, when you can be rivals and yet not petty. Competitiveness doesn't have to be nasty.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
The Dynamics of the men for team Russia seem more hostile over all than other countries.
You would never hear Chan say 'Oh, Kevin is just average' even if it's true. -And Chan has said some doozies in his lifetime. You wouldn't hear Daiskue say of Machida or Kozuka 'They are average'. Maybe the Russians thrive on subtle, and not so subtle put-downs of each other.
Just because something is the truth, doesn't make it necessary to be said. Machida could say of Hanyu, "His skating skills are merely a good average" --But it is unnecessary, so instead he praises Hanyu for his fighting spirit that helps him win no matter what. Hanyu could say disparaging things about Machida, but instead, he says Machida puts artistry into his programs. I think this helps build up the level of skating, when you can be rivals and yet not petty. Competitiveness doesn't have to be nasty.
I don't think PChan would say disparaging words about his teammates. As for the Japanese men, it would be the end of the world if they say anything bad about each other. I don't know much about other teams, though. It's true that no one brings the drama like Russians. But personally I think people take their words too seriously. It's not like an opinion of a certain skater, now matter how famous he is, could affect the judges' decision.
 
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