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Thread: Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater "

  1. #211
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    It's practically impossible to compare these two skaters. How do you compare a retired Olympic champion to a much younger skater who is just in the early stages of his career? It's difficult enough comparing contemporary rivals against one another (eg. Chan vs. Hanyu). It's even more impossible to do so when comparing 2 skaters from 2 different eras of very different age groups.
    You can compare career development and where people were at different ages. Even without comparing specifics, you can look at it in terms of results, consistency, whether they were considered elite, take into account if they did something special/innovative on the technical side, how good their presentation was. This is something that favors Plushenko in comparison to basically everyone, because he did well at such a young age (he moved up to senior at an age that's not even allowed now). You can also do this looking at entire careers, and say that both Plushenko and Button were excellent skaters who achieved a lot - in some cases, achieved things that are impossible to repeat (e.g. no other US skater will ever win Europeans and nobody will get as many 6.0s as Plushenko did ).

  2. #212
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    OMG at some of the responses on here..lol

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    I didn't know Kovtun was "hyped" at all? Was he ever?

    The only reason why he is talked about so much is because of the Plushenko "rivalry."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    I didn't know Kovtun was "hyped" at all? Was he ever?
    Didn't you hear Tarasova last year? She reckoned Kovtun was the greatest thing since sliced bread - so good, in fact, that not only would he bring home two spots from Worlds, he could bring home three!

    She changed her tune pretty fast...AFTER Worlds.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/702033

    He said that the best skating in a while comes from Yuzuru, who at 19 show best technique and charisma on ice. But among Russian skaters he commends Voronov and Menshov because they showed good clean skating. Everyone creates hype around one particular skater in whom he seen nothing special. He's a good average skater. We'll just have to wait and see how he does next.
    I hope Kovtun proves him wrong there. At the moment, he seems very musical and talented, but a total bundle of nerves when in competition. He still has things to improve - expression, posture, suitable music choices, and jump stability come to mind - and he's nowhere near the wonder that's Hanyu, but he's got a lot of potential. It's understandable that people talk about him, him being the youngest among the other GP/EC/WC Russian males whose competitive careers can be expected to end within a couple of seasons (no idea about Voronov though, his ISU page doesn't load). Fingers crossed for Kovtun in his upcoming season.

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    This is not his place to say. Does he feel guilty for using up the men's spot Kovtun earned or something and is trying to justify it to everybody? Whatever the case, these comments are rude and it's not a good look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Didn't you hear Tarasova last year? She reckoned Kovtun was the greatest thing since sliced bread - so good, in fact, that not only would he bring home two spots from Worlds, he could bring home three!
    Well, I'll say this much: I prefer Kovtun to sliced bread Bread should be fresh, not the nasty sliced stuff that comes packaged!

    Quote Originally Posted by caitie View Post
    This is not his place to say. Does he feel guilty for using up the men's spot Kovtun earned or something and is trying to justify it to everybody?
    I am sure Plushenko doesn't feel the least bit guilty for getting the Olympic spot, nor should he considering his contribution to the Russian team gold. He may, however, be tired of answering questions about it.

    BTW, Kovtun did not earn that spot, other than in the sense of only earning one spot. The Russian fed uses criteria other than just Nationals - as most countries do. If anyone was robbed, it was Sergei Voronov.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Well, I'll say this much: I prefer Kovtun to sliced bread Bread should be fresh, not the nasty sliced stuff that comes packaged!


    I am sure Plushenko doesn't feel the least bit guilty for getting the Olympic spot, nor should he considering his contribution to the Russian team gold. He may, however, be tired of answering questions about it.

    BTW, Kovtun did not earn that spot, other than in the sense of only earning one spot. The Russian fed uses criteria other than just Nationals - as most countries do. If anyone was robbed, it was Sergei Voronov.
    If Team Russia was Team Azerbaijan Plushenko would have been getting 5s and 6s for Components.

    He should not have been beating skaters like Voronov or Kovtun; just their components should give them a couple falls advantage over Plushenko in the scoring, if not more...

    Plushenko is in no position to call Kovtun an average skater. By comparison, his skating is below Junior quality compared to those men. Even his crossovers & stroking are terrible.

  9. #219
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    The Dynamics of the men for team Russia seem more hostile over all than other countries.
    You would never hear Chan say 'Oh, Kevin is just average' even if it's true. -And Chan has said some doozies in his lifetime. You wouldn't hear Daiskue say of Machida or Kozuka 'They are average'. Maybe the Russians thrive on subtle, and not so subtle put-downs of each other.
    Just because something is the truth, doesn't make it necessary to be said. Machida could say of Hanyu, "His skating skills are merely a good average" --But it is unnecessary, so instead he praises Hanyu for his fighting spirit that helps him win no matter what. Hanyu could say disparaging things about Machida, but instead, he says Machida puts artistry into his programs. I think this helps build up the level of skating, when you can be rivals and yet not petty. Competitiveness doesn't have to be nasty.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbiespectator View Post
    The Dynamics of the men for team Russia seem more hostile over all than other countries.
    You would never hear Chan say 'Oh, Kevin is just average' even if it's true. -And Chan has said some doozies in his lifetime. You wouldn't hear Daiskue say of Machida or Kozuka 'They are average'. Maybe the Russians thrive on subtle, and not so subtle put-downs of each other.
    Just because something is the truth, doesn't make it necessary to be said. Machida could say of Hanyu, "His skating skills are merely a good average" --But it is unnecessary, so instead he praises Hanyu for his fighting spirit that helps him win no matter what. Hanyu could say disparaging things about Machida, but instead, he says Machida puts artistry into his programs. I think this helps build up the level of skating, when you can be rivals and yet not petty. Competitiveness doesn't have to be nasty.
    I don't think PChan would say disparaging words about his teammates. As for the Japanese men, it would be the end of the world if they say anything bad about each other. I don't know much about other teams, though. It's true that no one brings the drama like Russians. But personally I think people take their words too seriously. It's not like an opinion of a certain skater, now matter how famous he is, could affect the judges' decision.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbiespectator View Post
    The Dynamics of the men for team Russia seem more hostile over all than other countries.
    You would never hear Chan say 'Oh, Kevin is just average' even if it's true. -And Chan has said some doozies in his lifetime. You wouldn't hear Daiskue say of Machida or Kozuka 'They are average'. Maybe the Russians thrive on subtle, and not so subtle put-downs of each other.
    If you are right, it makes threads like these even more silly. Russian skater interviewed in Russian media saying things about a Russian colleague that are at odds with Anglo-American cultural standards and discursive practices! Oh the horror! (Any actual Russians here who would care to weigh in?)

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    More "PR" brilliance from Plushenko. Saying potentially offensive or misinterpret able comments which capture media attention and the ire (more attention) of various fans, keeps him in the spotlight. Politically correct, looking distinguished and becoming the admired ambassador is not what keeps someone in the headlines.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by nimi View Post
    If you are right, it makes threads like these even more silly. Russian skater interviewed in Russian media saying things about a Russian colleague that are at odds with Anglo-American cultural standards and discursive practices! Oh the horror! (Any actual Russians here who would care to weigh in?)
    -Not just Anglo-American, Japan too So are there any Russians who care to talk about what is considered polite and impolite? -Broadly speaking of course.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Components View Post
    If Team Russia was Team Azerbaijan Plushenko would have been getting 5s and 6s for Components.
    Most Russian skaters would fare worse on PCS if they were skating for Azerbaijan, Kovtun included. Makes you appreciate skaters from smaller federations who are able to break through

    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    I don't think PChan would say disparaging words about his teammates. As for the Japanese men, it would be the end of the world if they say anything bad about each other. I don't know much about other teams, though. It's true that no one brings the drama like Russians. But personally I think people take their words too seriously. It's not like an opinion of a certain skater, now matter how famous he is, could affect the judges' decision.
    Japanese skaters would never be rude about anyone. Chan has made interesting comments comments in the past about many skaters, though not Canadians (that I can recall). Evan and Johnny used to make comments about one another on occasion.

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    I cannot comment for Russia, but i know from another ex communist country. The most here hate PC, as is seen as lying most of the time. Some even don't like when the vendors are fake smiling. When you are made to lie, and the results would have been loads worse than losing some fans as in America, you appreciate the value of the truth. I preffer much more that a person will tell me the truth, even if i don't like it, that to lie to me and do things behind my back. It is a cultural thing, like in Japan hardly telling directly "No".

    I know that in many countries to tell directly the truth, may be inconvenient. But i don't like to read interviews where skaters are only Disney-princess like. Boring. If that's the way they really are, fine. But most of the poeple are not. They have their own oppinion, even negative ones. Why would interest me to read not their opinion but a fake PC one only that the person would have a fake "gracious" shine?

    After that complaining that FS has no many fans. Why would some bother with this fake world?

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