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Thread: Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater "

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Wouldn't it make more sense for Plushenko to be jealous of Hanyu or Chan, if he had to be jealous of someone? After all, both are a fair bit more accomplished and talented than Kovtun, and Hanyu beat Plushenko in the team event SP, yet Plushenko has been nothing but complimentary about him.

    Maybe he's just not that impressed with Kovtun's skating. He's hardly the only one.
    It doesn't mean he's not jealous. He can't say something like that about them because they already established themselves. And he don't want to look stupid and delusional too.
    He may not be impressed with Kovtun's skating. It's his right. But he should find more classy way to answer such questions. No top athletes are saying anything like that about their colleagues, it just doesn't look good.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviechick View Post
    Either way, Plush being a douchebag based on his quotes = Chan is also a douchebag (and his quotes are actually dumber).
    For some reason I laugh at a lot of Plushy's remarks. I just watched an old movie called "the Money Pit". There is a character named Max that reminds me of Plush. He is this arrogant european self centered conductor of a symphony that you ultimately love just for him being himself. I couldn't imagine skating without him.

    I've never laughed at a Chan quote. They don't strike me the same way.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    My guess is that Plushenko is not able to forget or forgive Kovtun for beating him at the Russian Nationals... Yeah, an average skater managed to beat him
    Wouldn't it also make sense for his ego to talk up how amazing kovtun is like tarasova? No because he only tends to speak the truth about skaters and russian skaters. He is far far far nicer to kovtun than he was to voronov lutai menshov!! I wish people could have some perspective! Kovtun is good average. That's what he he is. He's not amazing or great and plushenko has been calling hanyu amazing great for years and years! What's the problem here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Wouldn't it make more sense for Plushenko to be jealous of Hanyu or Chan, if he had to be jealous of someone? After all, both are a fair bit more accomplished and talented than Kovtun, and Hanyu beat Plushenko in the team event SP, yet Plushenko has been nothing but complimentary about him.

    Maybe he's just not that impressed with Kovtun's skating. He's hardly the only one.
    You are right!

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow63 View Post
    It doesn't mean he's not jealous. He can't say something like that about them because they already established themselves. And he don't want to look stupid and delusional too.
    He may not be impressed with Kovtun's skating. It's his right. But he should find more classy way to answer such questions. No top athletes are saying anything like that about their colleagues, it just doesn't look good.
    No you are saying plushenko should deny the reality of kovtun just because he's Russian and they're both russian. That's being delusional! He's not head cheerleader for Russia.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow63 View Post
    It doesn't mean he's not jealous. He can't say something like that about them because they already established themselves. And he don't want to look stupid and delusional too.
    He may not be impressed with Kovtun's skating. It's his right. But he should find more classy way to answer such questions. No top athletes are saying anything like that about their colleagues, it just doesn't look good.
    Lol, he has said some things against other well-established skaters in the past so that first part is not true. The second part is also not true. And althetes in other sports trash talk way more than those in figure skating....FS is child's play

    This man has not changed in last 15 years in both style and personality, so why are people acting so shocked at his bluntness now? And is he lying? Kovtun IS average among the top elites, he doesn't have anything special going for him except for his horrible and inconsistent quads. The man's predictions are usually on point, and I don't see this one being any different. But as of right now, we can't know what's in store for Kovtun in the future. Like Plushenko, we can just wait and see.

  6. #111
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    I'm not defending Kovtun the person (who I agree is ridiculous with his comments). I'm defending Kovtun the skater.

    If any skater is being douchey I'll criticize them for it. Whether Plu/Kovtun/Joubert/Chan/whoever.

    But if he's defending himself against douchery that's a different thing. If Kovtun wanted to retort, I would be pretty amused if he said: "If I'm so average and Russian champion, how should we regard the silver medalist and everyone who placed behind me?"

  7. #112
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    If Kovtun wanted to retort, I would be pretty amused if he said: "If I'm so average and Russian champion, how should we regard the silver medalist and everyone who placed behind me?"
    Yes, people would be very amuse since the certain silver medalist he mentioned is the 2006 Olympic gold medalist, 2014 Olympic team gold medalist, 2002 Olympic silver medalist, and 2010 Olympic silver medalist, a three-time World champion (2001, 2003, 2004), a seven-time European champion (2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012), a four-time Grand Prix Final champion (1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2004–05), and a ten-time Russian national champion (1999–2002, 2004–06, 2010, 2012–13).
    On top of that, he now is a 31 year old man.

    I mean I do agree that Plushy is harsh on Kovtun but at least he has a pile of medals to boast for, while Kovtun is nowhere near the level. Plushy is not famous for humbleness, same as PChan. But well, I think it's pretty much the same as Dick Button's comment about Plushy: "I think he is a great jumper, but I don't think he is a great skater."

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    There is no shame in a 31 year old man many years past his prime losing the occasional competition to an 18 year old who is in his prime. By contrary it is pretty embarassing for Kovtun to lose to Plushenko almost everytime they meet, and that he needs Plushenko to mess up badly for him to have a shot.
    They've met exactly 3 times, twice at Russian Nationals when Kovtun was a junior-level skater and once at Russian nationals this year. In his first wholly senior season of competing Kovtun took him out at Nationals. And he still beat Plushenko in spite of Plu "earning" 95 points for his hot mess of a Russian nationals FS, and should have beat him by 12 points not a mere 6.

    And you're also trivializing how well Kovtun did at Russian Nationals, with 2 quads in his SP and in his FS he did 2 quads and 2 triple axels. He obliterated Plushenko and he only thing that kept him 2nd was a clean SP (which was overscored as we saw it earn 7 points less in the team SP) and reputation. Kovtun's performance at Russian Nationals was certainly above average.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Yes, people would be very amuse since the certain silver medalist he mentioned is the 2006 Olympic gold medalist, 2014 Olympic team gold medalist, 2002 Olympic silver medalist, and 2010 Olympic silver medalist, a three-time World champion (2001, 2003, 2004), a seven-time European champion (2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012), a four-time Grand Prix Final champion (1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2004–05), and a ten-time Russian national champion (1999–2002, 2004–06, 2010, 2012–13).
    On top of that, he is a 31 year old man. I mean I do agree that Plushy is harsh on Kovtun but at least he has a pile of medals to boast for, while Kovtun is not. Plushy is not famous for humbleness, same as PChan. But well, I think it's pretty much the same as Dick Button's comment about Plushy: "I think he is a great jumpers, but I don't think he is a great skater."
    A pile of medals doesn't give you the right to treat your competitors like that. If anything, as a champion he should be a role model and encouraging the Russian men instead of flinging muck because Kovtun thwomped him to take the title Plu's likely final appearance at Russian nationals.

    For all intents and purposes, Kovtun's 2013 Worlds was a crapshoot as a junior skater, and this is the first senior season and worlds which I measure him by. While not as successful as Plu/Hanyu/Chan, he still performed very well.

    It wasn't enough to be gifted the placement in Sochi, Plu still has to harass Kovtun with these comments and as a prominent skater and champion, he really needs to have more class. And people saying "he's blunt" "that's just how he is" "it's kinda amusing when he says it", that's hypocritical and enabling when you support his disparaging comments and then criticize Chan and other skaters' bad comments.

  10. #115
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    If the comparison is to Hanyu, then he's not even average tbh. Hell, I'm sure Plushenko himself would acknowledge that at his age and current state, he is only average among this field.

    Athletes aren't obligated to be saintly role models. Unless they're actually being offensive (racist/homophobic), everyone can just say what they honestly think. I wouldn't tell Dick Button to stop criticizing. It's more helpful that Scoot Hamilton's drooling over everything.

  11. #116
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    So you would think it's fine for Kovtun to say something he honestly might think like: "Plushenko is just bitter this good average skater beat him in his last Russian nationals, which is why he continues to criticize me. He is also jealous that in just my 2nd year, I can execute 2 different quads and he has been incapable of anything harder than a 4T his whole career. And if you want average, perhaps he should watch his freeskate at Nationals this year." Kovtun shouldn't be criticized if he makes such comments?

    It's bs to say skaters have no responsibility to be role models or at the bare minimum respect their fellow competitors. Ever heard of sportsmanship?

  12. #117
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    As for whether "average" or "good average" is an insult... Do you think Plushenko wouldn't bristle or snap back if somebody accused him of having "average choreography", even when that's the honest truth? (Well, actually below average choreography but you get the idea.)

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I don't think either is average, though Gracie is a better skater than Kovtun. I do think that they both have a way to go before they go from above average (for the elite level) to truly special.

    Kovtun is 18 and will turn 19 in June. At a comparable age, Plushenko had already completed four senior seasons and had won three World medals (one gold) and four European medals (two gold). IIRC, 4th at Worlds was his career worst. Hanyu, whom Plushenko clearly thinks very highly of, had three senior seasons under his belt, with a world medal and a pair of 4CC medals before he turned 19, since boosted with a World title and of course an OGM. I can see why he'd look at Kovtun and find him average in comparison. He's not comparing him to recreational skaters but to those at an elite level.

    When Plushenko was getting 90s in the SP and 160s in the LP, those were extremely high scores. You can't compare scores from 2013-14 to those of skaters whose peak years were earlier. Kovtun also has a higher PB than Lambiel, would you like to argue his superiority compared to Stephane?

    this tbh. Plushy's pretty much judging from his own (rather illustrious) perspective. Kovtun most certainly does not suck, he just isn't on the same level that Plushy was or Yuzuru is in terms of actually accomplishing things in competitions.That being said, boy is he not mincing his words xD


    *popcorns @ the fire in this thread*

    EDIT: I will be very surprised if Kovtun fires back at plushy. One, he doesn't have the status/accomplishments to back himself up. Two, he doesn't seem to be appreciating the scrunity and probably won't want to aggravate the situation further XD;; Three: it's always good to stay classy and avoid uneccesary drama :D

  14. #119
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    Kovtun should do as one should do when somebody makes unclassy remarks, shrug it off and focus on his skating. He should say something like, "It is insignificant what he has to say. I am going to focus on myself. All I know is I met some goals of being Russian champion and I am pleased with my Worlds placement and looking forward to an even more improved season next year."

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    So you would think it's fine for Kovtun to say something he honestly might think like: "Plushenko is just bitter this good average skater beat him in his last Russian nationals, which is why he continues to criticize me. He is also jealous that in just my 2nd year, I can execute 2 different quads and he has been incapable of anything harder than a 4T his whole career. And if you want average, perhaps he should watch his freeskate at Nationals this year." Kovtun shouldn't be criticized if he makes such comments?
    Sure, Kovtun can go ahead and say it if he wants to become an outcast and face the wrath of anyone who likes Plushenko in Russia. Which is quite a lot of people. Being capable of 2 quads is nice, but if that's all that mattered then Tim Goebel would've been OGM in 2002.

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