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Thread: 2014-15 Season Preview

  1. #91
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    ^thx for the insight Chuckm!

  2. #92
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I'm sorry, but I don't think any Canadian or American singles skater has ever received personal best PCS with just 3-triples, and I don't think any American or Canadian pair/ice dancer has ever received a personal best score with a fall. Both happened at CoR.

    NHK with Akiko being held below Mao was pretty bad too.

    Gotta love TEB and Cup of China being the prettier sisters... although I'm sure if either country had well-rounded disciplines you'd see more politicking/PCS boosts for their skaters, too.
    Kaetlyn Osmond - that is all

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    Interesting, I've heard the USFS is done with a skater, they try to give them Cup or Russia and or Cup of China. 2013 Cup of Russia had Mirai and Agnes had both so I wonder if there's any truth to that.
    Hmm. Interesting. Hadn't heard that before. I will pay close attention to who the USFS assigns to those events next season.

  4. #94
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    USFS does NOT "assign" skaters to CoR or CoC! The Russian Fed chooses the skaters for CoR and the Chinese Fed chooses the skaters for CoC.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It doesn't work that way. USFS has no say where their skaters will be invited. Other than the top two seeds (who pick the events they want) and the host invitations to their own skaters, the whole GP process is done by the hosts drawing lots at each stage of selection. After the host picks, the top two seeds name their events, and the remaining two events go to the #3 seed. Then the hosts draw lots for each remaining category selection: seeds 4-6, worlds finishers 7-9, worlds finishers 10-12, top 24 on WR list (if not already selected), top 24 on SB list (if not already selected), etc.

    The host who draws first has first pick per category; the host who draws 6th gets whoever is left in that category. No way can USFS influence the outcome of the draw.

    It is possible that for CoR, the Russian Fed may pick skaters that won't offer much competition to their own stars. Since both Nagasu and Zawadzki haven't exactly been consistently good on the GP circuit they may fit that criteria.
    Thanks for clearing this up!

    Have you thought about posting this explanation in the 'References' section with a heading 'How does the seeding work' or something? The seeding/picking procedure is obviously something that confuses a lot of posters here, so it would benefit everybody if this was posted somewhere where it is easy to find and link to, instead of getting buried in this thread. Just a thought.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    USFS does NOT "assign" skaters to CoR or CoC! The Russian Fed chooses the skaters for CoR and the Chinese Fed chooses the skaters for CoC.
    I do know that is technically how it works. My comment was going off comments made by Jenny Kirk on multiple TSL eps that you knew where you were in the USFS pecking order based on your GPs. She basically said she decided to retire when USFS called her and told her she was assigned Cup of Russia because she knew it meant they were done supporting her. So perhaps certain politicking and dealmaking goes on behind the scenes with the federations with regard to lineups. Perhaps not but I don't think its unreasonable to believe anything in skating is not totally transparent.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    I expect that tech caller at Nationals to show her no mercy.
    And nor should they. In fact, if the tech caller at Boston hadn't been so soft, Mirai would not have finished third, and there never would have been a controversy. It is to Mirai's advantage when the tech caller is strict - it tells her that the problem has not magically gone away and she still needs to work on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    Interesting, I've heard the USFS is done with a skater, they try to give them Cup or Russia and or Cup of China. 2013 Cup of Russia had Mirai and Agnes had both so I wonder if there's any truth to that.
    Uh, heck, what does that say about Joshua Farris?

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post

    Uh, heck, what does that say about Joshua Farris?
    I didn't say it was hard science- just that there has been speculation that federation politics may in some cases factor into GP assignments. Perhaps its as transparent and straightforward as some believe. And as far as Josh, he's obviously up and coming, he also got Skate Canada, I don't think it says anything at all.

  9. #99
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    Look at the skaters the Russian Fed originally picked for CoR (Men). It's fairly plain that the skaters were chosen that would pose the least competition for Kovtun:

    Seeds:
    Fernandez - the #3 seed and known to falter in the early season
    Reynolds - the #5 seed, but clearly much less of a threat than #4 Hanyu and #6 Takahashi

    Worlds 7-9: #9 Joubert - preferable to #7 Aaron or #8 Mura
    Worlds 10-12: #11 Liebers - didn't have cachet or resume of #10 Brezina or #12 Amodio

    Top 24 SB/WR:
    Machida - won CoC 2012 but was 7th at 2012 4CC
    Dornbush - had an extensive history of 5th place finishes in the GP--no medals
    Farris - JW champion moving up to GP for the first time.

    It isn't uncommon for a host to try to assemble a less-competitive field to protect the home skater.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It isn't uncommon for a host to try to assemble a less-competitive field to protect the home skater.
    True, although sometimes the opposite occurs and there is a competitive field right in a skater's own backyard. But perhaps that is becoming less common now than it was a decade ago. I think there is more emphasis on points and GP wins today and the strategy behind it. But there was a time when you would sometimes have several of the top skaters at the same event. One I remember well was Skate Canada 2000 where Sale & Pelletier had to face off against Elena & Anton and Petrova & Tikonhov. S&P ended up winning that event, but that was about as competitive as it could be considering they were facing off against 2 sets of World Champions.

    But nowadays you're right that we often don't see the top skaters together until the GPF. V&M and D&W didn't skate against each other last season until the GPF, for example. But Chan and Hanyu both faced off at Skate Canada (and TEB). So it depends.

  11. #101
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    Petrova & Tikhonov were the closest thing to a paper world champion ever. I mean in the sense of what it was like to face them in the following season, not that they didnt fully deserve their world title. In the year they won worlds they were one of the strongest and the most consistent team of the season, although it was still an upset they won worlds with most expecting Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze (who missed worlds with an injury), Sale & Pelletier, or Shen & Zhao. However in their season as reigning world champions they came dead last at the grand prix final of 6 teams, 4th at Europeans, and 6th in the long program at worlds. They werent even competitive with the top teams.

    The reason that draw was possible is that neither Sale & Pelletier (4th after making 3 mistakes in their Love Story program) or Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze (missed worlds) were a top 3 seed.

  12. #102
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    Yes, P&T were also very boring and mechanical. Nice people, but they had no spark. Debbi Wilkes, a former Olympic medalist in pairs herself, even said on CTV that month that they had 'no sex appeal'. They just got the job done in Nice at Worlds 2000 by being clean and ticking off the elements. But they were still competitive when they were on, and B&S were S&P's closest rivals.

    Btw, the reason B&S had to withdraw from Worlds wasn't because of injury, it was because Elena tested positive for a banned substance (apparently cough medicine!) They were stripped of their European Title, which some people thought was harsh.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It doesn't work that way. USFS has no say where their skaters will be invited. Other than the top two seeds (who pick the events they want) and the host invitations to their own skaters, the whole GP process is done by the hosts drawing lots at each stage of selection. After the host picks, the top two seeds name their events, and the remaining two events go to the #3 seed. Then the hosts draw lots for each remaining category selection: seeds 4-6, worlds finishers 7-9, worlds finishers 10-12, top 24 on WR list (if not already selected), top 24 on SB list (if not already selected), etc.

    The host who draws first has first pick per category; the host who draws 6th gets whoever is left in that category. No way can USFS influence the outcome of the draw.

    It is possible that for CoR, the Russian Fed may pick skaters that won't offer much competition to their own stars. Since both Nagasu and Zawadzki haven't exactly been consistently good on the GP circuit they may fit that criteria.
    Is there any rule that would prevent 2 hosts from swapping early picks before announcing final assignments? That would be a way of negotiating to support certain skaters.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post

    It isn't uncommon for a host to try to assemble a less-competitive field to protect the home skater.
    For sure, I fully expect USFS to do everything in their power to protect Gracie and Chock and bates. And I think that's fine. It's only when the judging of the assembled field is ludicrous a la dance at Cup of Russia this past season that I have an issue.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Look at the skaters the Russian Fed originally picked for CoR (Men). It's fairly plain that the skaters were chosen that would pose the least competition for Kovtun:

    Farris - JW champion moving up to GP for the first time.

    It isn't uncommon for a host to try to assemble a less-competitive field to protect the home skater.
    Well, if they were trying to pick a "weak" field for Kovtun, then this pick particularly was foolish, since the last time these two went head to head, in Russia, with Kovtun getting massively overscored, Farris beat him in the SP. Unfortunately he was ill for the long program, so couldn't bring his best performance there, but given Farris and Kovtun had gone head to head before and, when both were at full strength, Farris was better, I would have thought this was a risky proposition.

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