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Looking back on the careers of Yu Na Kim and Michelle Kwan
- Thread starter pangtongfan
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Agree. It is like compare apples to oranges.
Using Sochigate as a way to prop up your already faulty reasoning is just lmao. I'm sure if Michelle Kwan skated just as well, maybe even marginally better than, as Yuna Kim in Sochi, she too would have lost to the more-technically-superior-artistically-superior-everything-superior Sotnikova (as the scores indicated 
). But that's just a big fat "if", just like how Michelle skating cleanly and winning over Sotnikova is a big fat "if."
If I was some uneducated skating fan taking all my knowledge from skating forums, I'd think Yuna Kim was a very mediocre skater, somehow winning almost everything and never being off the podium by only sheer luck, and undeserving of being compared to other great figure skating legends. But, uh, thanks for the laughs. I could possibly skip the ab portion of my workout today.
). But that's just a big fat "if", just like how Michelle skating cleanly and winning over Sotnikova is a big fat "if."If I was some uneducated skating fan taking all my knowledge from skating forums, I'd think Yuna Kim was a very mediocre skater, somehow winning almost everything and never being off the podium by only sheer luck, and undeserving of being compared to other great figure skating legends. But, uh, thanks for the laughs. I could possibly skip the ab portion of my workout today.
I'm not sure even Michelle would have been able to win the gold medal by skating cleanly in Sochi. The environment there was just too corrupt. However, you can bet that if she was in the same situation as Yuna, her federation would have fought tooth and nail for her. You imply that Michelle would never let an inferior skater beat her, ergo she is a greater skater than Yuna, but in all of Yuna's career she has never had politics on her side in the judging. Yuna had to overcome many obstacles her whole career as she was from a small country with no power in the figure skating world. This makes her accomplishments and her career-long podium streak that much more impressive. As everyone has said so far, comparing these two legends' careers directly is impossible across different eras. Why can't we just appreciate both for their incredible body of work and contributions to the sport?
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When I saw the title of this thread, I was thinking now folks here are getting the techniques of journalists of creating sensational headlines really well--To me, this title is a little joke, since in my mind Yuna is clearer a better athlete than Kwan. Yuna completed far fewer seasons than Kwan did, and she always had 3-3. Kwan's fame benefited greatly from the longevity of her career.
Hi guys. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of the greatest reasons as to why Yuna gets so much fame and support is her underdog story. For those of you who really know Yuna and her skating career, you understand that there ups and downs, but more downs than ups. Her skating career takes you all the way back when Korea was just a developing country, and she is the first to come out of her country to become the best in the world when no other figure skaters before her have done so from Korea. If you really watch her skating and learn about her life, you would understand that there are a lot of political games played and the sport itself does not back her up. First, it was the rival story of Japan v.s. Korea which allowed the audience to be interested, and root for their countries. When things were clear that Yuna is the ultimate champion, people got to understand the beauty of Yuna when she skates on the ice. Don't forget she holds the world title. That's something to say about her.
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- Feb 2, 2011
I'd say she is not in the same league, but she has come closer than anybody else. They are pretty close. But where Yuna has solid 3/3's and difficult jump combinations Michelle had an artistry and presence on the ice that can't be matched. A lot of skaters try to appear to be so lost in the music and the program but it doesn't look authentic, they look as if they are working at it. Michelle really felt the music and she made you watch her, she (quoting Peggy Fleming here) "cast a spell over the audience". Even if she was faking it ( which I don't think she was, she loved the sport and loved to be on the ice competing and that joy she had for her sport could be seen in her movements and in her facial expressions) It is something you can't teach. It has to come from within the skater.
For me, when Yuna attempts to emote to the audience it doesn't seem authentic, the same with Sasha and Jeremy and a lot of other skaters.
When Dick Button yells towards the end Michelle's 2003 Worlds LP "look at the face, I love it, I love it!!" That is what he is referring to, the pure joy Michelle emoted on the ice. Not to mention she had insane consistency that will pretty much never be matched anytime soon.
You can crunch the numbers all you want but what makes a skater great is how they make the audience feel and how the audience responds to the skater. Michelle was one of the most liked skaters ever. She had hoards of fans all over the world. She has left her mark on the skating world.
It is very telling that Yuna chose Michelle to join her in All That Skate. As great as Yuna is, she is not Michelle.
For me, when Yuna attempts to emote to the audience it doesn't seem authentic, the same with Sasha and Jeremy and a lot of other skaters.
When Dick Button yells towards the end Michelle's 2003 Worlds LP "look at the face, I love it, I love it!!" That is what he is referring to, the pure joy Michelle emoted on the ice. Not to mention she had insane consistency that will pretty much never be matched anytime soon.
You can crunch the numbers all you want but what makes a skater great is how they make the audience feel and how the audience responds to the skater. Michelle was one of the most liked skaters ever. She had hoards of fans all over the world. She has left her mark on the skating world.
It is very telling that Yuna chose Michelle to join her in All That Skate. As great as Yuna is, she is not Michelle.
I believe these two things are mutually exclusive. You can't say Yuna participated in a competiton considered fake and phony and "lost" and then say Yuna isn't as good because she didn't win the fake and phony.
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- Mar 5, 2014
For me, I enjoy watching Kwan more than Kim because she has more of an emotional impact and genuineness to me, which is number 1 in my book. The 1996 Worlds Salome performance is incredible, though Lu Chen's Roch 2 was just as great that night. I rank Lu Chen's loss as one of the most heart breaking in history (along with Mao's loss with Czardas in 2007), though Kwan was equally worthy. I like Kwan's spirals and spins better as well. That said Kim's jumps are higher, longer and more impressive and so is her speed, which would give her higher scores in those areas. So, I guess it would come down to a close battle with personal preference inclining me to Kwan, who I am more likely to watch. Though, I think Kim is in the same league as Kwan.
In my opinion, Kwan should have beaten Lipinksi. Just my opinion. Kwan had bigger jumps, better artistry, better spins. But, Lipinski was still "close" to the same league and she did do more though smaller jumps. It's Lip's tiny jumps and cheesy smiles that got to me. I think Kwan would have probably won under the new system with higher GOE's on her jumps. For me, it was highly questionable and it did bother me , but it wasn not a travesty like Sochi.
Even I have to admit Kim deserved to win in Sochi. It still hurts to say it, since I am a big Mao fan. It was so elaborately rigged there was no way she could win unless Sotnikova fell at least once. Even then it probably would have been close to a tie. Sotnikova got Astronomical GOE's, 15-20 point inflation in PCS from Grand Prix Season, no under-rotation or edge calls. It was a complete farce. I'm looking at it from the perspective of Mao's incredible FS (should have got 1st by quite a bit) and for me Kim was definitely second best in FS. The intent was to humiliate Kim and Asada. I am convinced of that. The anger still rankles. Kostner was collateral damage.
In my opinion, Kwan should have beaten Lipinksi. Just my opinion. Kwan had bigger jumps, better artistry, better spins. But, Lipinski was still "close" to the same league and she did do more though smaller jumps. It's Lip's tiny jumps and cheesy smiles that got to me. I think Kwan would have probably won under the new system with higher GOE's on her jumps. For me, it was highly questionable and it did bother me , but it wasn not a travesty like Sochi.
Even I have to admit Kim deserved to win in Sochi. It still hurts to say it, since I am a big Mao fan. It was so elaborately rigged there was no way she could win unless Sotnikova fell at least once. Even then it probably would have been close to a tie. Sotnikova got Astronomical GOE's, 15-20 point inflation in PCS from Grand Prix Season, no under-rotation or edge calls. It was a complete farce. I'm looking at it from the perspective of Mao's incredible FS (should have got 1st by quite a bit) and for me Kim was definitely second best in FS. The intent was to humiliate Kim and Asada. I am convinced of that. The anger still rankles. Kostner was collateral damage.
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Ugh. This whole thread is a joke and neither Michelle nor Yuna would approve..Something they both have and you don't is class.
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That's so true.
To put it simply, Michelle was much more competitive than Yuna.
She also loved skating soooo much more than Yuna who skipped important competitions etc.
:thumbsup:
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You just saved me a lot of typing.
They're both wonderful and Yuna came close, but Michelle is still #1 for me because of the connection with the music and the audience that you described so well. I still miss the elegance with which she landed her jumps, and especially the big smile that would spread across her face during her lovely spiral sequences.This is not to take anything away from Yuna, who was/is also an incredible pleasure to watch. It's just that Michelle had an extraordinary ability to share something of herself and involve her audiences in her programs. In a way, she allowed us to skate with her.
In the end, the medal count doesn't matter -- only the quality of the performance. Trixi Schiuba (sp?) has an OGM while Janet Lynn came away from those Olympics with "only" a bronze. Aside from her dominance in school figures, would anyone argue that Schiuba was a better skater overall than Lynn? I doubt it.
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Personally, I prefer MK. But I also think that it's really difficult to compare skaters across eras. Both Yuna and MK should be remembered as the greatest skater of their respective eras.
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I didn't mean to imply that Schuba doesn't deserve respect or that she didn't earn her titles under the scoring system of the day. She certainly did, and her figures were indeed gorgeous. My only point was that the color and/or quantity of medals a skater has isn't necessarily indicative of all-around greatness.
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I agree, my only point was Schuba should still be considered great as well IMO. It annoys me when people talk about the weakest Olympic Champions ever anyone would put her in the same category as Poetzsch, Hughes, and Sotnikova. Based on her figures excellence, the foundation of the sport, she is light years beyond ones like those.
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2014 is not just another controversial decision. it is downright fraud.
Yuna only competed 5 worlds, she win 2 title.
Yuna only competed 5 Grand Prix, she win 4 title.
Yuna only competed 1 four continents, she win 1 title.
So, I think it is really doesn't matter how many title Michelle has, or Mao has.
Also, ironically, Yuna has more "title" compare to competition she entered.
Everyone have a different opinion, there is no right and wrong...
Yuna only competed 5 Grand Prix, she win 4 title.
Yuna only competed 1 four continents, she win 1 title.
So, I think it is really doesn't matter how many title Michelle has, or Mao has.
Also, ironically, Yuna has more "title" compare to competition she entered.
Everyone have a different opinion, there is no right and wrong...
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We should watch the Hero program they skated together. That says it all.
Works for me.
http://pds26.egloos.com/pds/201302/05/40/c0119640_511105d4b64ad.jpg
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