What is so great about...

[RealtorGal]

Navka & Kostamarov? I really must be missing something. They are quite competent, but that's all I'm getting. Nothing more. I don't even see such great edges, and I'm left emotionally cold by their performances. I'd love to hear from the experts on what makes them worthy of the gold. Are they so much better than everyone else, or is it a matter of there not being anyone INCREDIBLE on the dance scene at this time?

Even though I don't really see the fine differences among the dance pairs, up until now, I've always been able to at least see what makes a pair GREAT--like Anissina & Peizerat. Now I'm lost. L/W linger in the 6-8th place in World standings for years, suddenly they win World bronze. C/S, on the other hand, go from World bronze to oblivion. Have they actually gotten so much worse in such a short time? Is it the coaching change? Have all top couples suddenly gotten THAT much better than they?

Curious minds want to know.

[lulu]

I don't think N&K are so much better than everyone else now. And it seems that the top teams right now, are not equvilant to the top teams 10 years ago. Although, I really enjoy ice dancing now anyway:D

N&K have great line and stretch in their movement. And Navka is probably the best ice dancer on the scene right now.

What holds them back, from being the type a team that they could be(especially in comparison to D&S who have more difficult footwork) is a lack of difficulty.

I would like to see them add more difficulty to their dances(although their OD this year was quite good).

I'm looking forward to seeing their programs for next year.

And I think they're pretty entertaining couple on the ice

All JMHO

[Lcp88]

I've never been all that impressed with Navka and Kostomorov. They are a gorgeous couple on the ice, but I also don't see the level of difficulty that should be there with a World Champion team. They're lifts are strong and secure, but they never seem to have a whole lot of speed and they use a lot of wild arm movements in an attempt to be expresive. IMO, Denkova and Skaviski (sp) are above and beyond, and I was dissapointed (although not surprised) that they didnt win this year.
Laura

[berthes ghost]

What is so great about...Navka & Kostamarov?

Her husband

L/W linger in the 6-8th place in World standings for years, suddenly they win World bronze.?

Home court fix (see mens event for further info)

C/S, on the other hand, go from World bronze to oblivion?

Did you miss the part where almost all of the others skaters protested their medal claiming that they cheated?

[thvudragon]

Originally posted by berthes ghost
Home court fix (see mens event for further info)

What? Lindemann would have won bronze either way and I can see arguements to both sides. How can there be a "fix" when the result was just either way?

Originally posted by berthes ghost
C/S, on the other hand, go from World bronze to oblivion?

Did you miss the part where almost all of the others skaters protested their medal claiming that they cheated?

The petition said nothing of cheating. All the petition said was that the skaters were displeased with the result, because they thought it was wrong. How does this equate to saying C&S cheated? The only Ice Dancer I've ever heard who even claimed that they thought C&S cheated was Kati Winkler, and that was because she picked up on an untrue rumour from FSU.

TV

[thvudragon]

Anyway, On N&K, they have great potential. Good basics, nice lines, but their difficult is just nowhere to be seen. They don't skate very close together, and their footwork is nowhere near balanced (and absent most of the time). In CoP they were winning because of the high quality of elements. It was their component marks that were obscene.

DenSta forever!
TV

[Antilles]

I prefer D&S myself, but I think N&K are an excellent team. They have such great lines. They are great at expressing music. She's really the star of the team, hard to take your eyes off of her. I agree he needs to do more during the program.

C&S, IMO have returned to where they should be in the ranks. They're basic skating quality isn't there, and I don't know how they ever won a World bronze.

W&L, well, they have been held back by injury since 2002, so maybe they just finally met their potential. I think they were overmarked though.

[BravesSkateFan]

I keep asking the same thing about Belbin and Agosto.

[dorispulaski]

Here's some thoughts about this year's dances/teams.

The original questions Realtor Gal asked was what is so great about N&K, and what happened to C&S.

The second question I think is easier. There were several things that happened to C&S at worlds, and this year.

My view of dance this year is that N&K and D&S are off in a league by themselves, but that 3rd through 8th places the teams are very close, and any one can win for a given competition. We have seen this by the differences in finish through the GP and GPF.

C&S have improved, but the rest of the field have improved perhaps even more. B&A are learning at the lightning pace of youngsters. D&L have swapped coaches and are training in France. G&G were always very close to C&S. I don't know as much about the DelSchoes, but they seem to have improved a lot between last year's worlds and this year's Skate America, both of which I saw live.

So here are the problems C&S have had:
1. They skated a clown routine. My personal advice, don't skate to a clown routine, hillbilly routine, cowboy or Indian routine. There are judges that just don't like those kinds of routines on senior skaters. You will lose the odd ordinal there.
2. They had costume issues, getting costume deductions for shedding pieces of it during the GP.
3. They then went the other way and skated their clown routine in black outfits, which also didn't really work.
4. They skated in the CD in a group having N&K, W&L and DelSchoes, all of whom are superior in the CD. The dance chosen was the Midnight Blues, which is a new dance. Like any blues it emphasizes edges and extension. C&S's forte is speed and quickstepping. They came in fourth in their group. W&L and N&K are definitely superior for edges and extension. The best C&S could have hoped in this group was to be 3rd. As it was the DelSchoes hopped over them too. I didn't see it, and therefore won't try to explain that.
5. In the OD, they fell. Falling in dance is a killer unless you are Grischuk and Platov. The result was they placed 8th in the OD.
They pulled up to 7th in the FD, but their total score was 13.4. To place ahead of the DelSchoes, who finished with 10.8, they had to do more than just beat the DelSchoes. Someone else from below C&S had to beat DelSchoes. So 7th was about the best they were going to do at World's, given their showing in OD and CD.

As to where others placed, the DelSchoes had had a break in practice, and Olivier still had an injured hand. According to Isabelle, she missed his hand on the last lift of the LP.
I would bet that they lost a little energy toward the end of the program due to the training break, too, although ABC chacked them, so I can't say.

Consequently they placed behind B&A, who had the absolute skate of their life of WSS, not missing a thing. If you are a B&A fan, their big problem was placement in the CD. Again, they are team that excels in quick stepping, close skating, and varied hand holds. Not a super blues couple. Shpilband couples often do not seem to skate as well as they should in the CD's. B&A were 4th in their CD group, as were C&S.

However, B&A skated great in the OD, and yet were placed behind G&G, who had a uniformity break in one of the S/L sequence and missed a handhold. ESPN showed G&G last night. I am shocked that G&G scored ahead of W&L or B&A in the OD.
Their OD is a nice composition but it was not well skated. And G&G made mistakes in the LP. Now that I have seen the programs, at least in download clips, I can definitely understand W&L finishing ahead of G&G. I think B&A should have finished ahead of G&G too, but I think they had too much ground to make up from the CD's in any case. G&G were 2nd in the CD whereas B&A were 4th. However, B&A were great in the OD as well, a medley that favors the fast, close skating, and quick stepping style they have. (I believe that is 3rd vs 7th, if dance is ranked like singles. I have to check) B&A improved their edits of WSS before Worlds too, which probably helped.

As to what happened to Dubreuil/Lauzon, you need to ask a Canadian. I have not seen their performances yet.

As to what B&A have, you might want to listen to the Russians, whom seem to find them entertaining and promising. If you liked L&A's 2003 program, you would probably like the B&A OD live.

Now as to what is so great about N&K this year:

1. If the CD is Midnight Blues, I bet they were miles better than D&S, because of Navka's line and extension. The blues section of their OD is also completely gorgeous. That gives them the edge over D&S in those two items.
2. I think it was Averbukh who said N&K look like champions. Their costumes were perfect. D&S had gauze blowing over their faces and obscuring their nice lines. It didn't help.

My own view is that N&K were better in the OD, and probably superior in the CD although the teams were in different groups so that it didn't make a difference. I like D&S better in the LP, costume problems or no costume problems. But it was close enough, that I wouldn't argue with the order of finish.

The only issue I have is with G&G whom I think got a gift at 4th.

dpp

[shine]

N/K leave me cold too. For one, I can't stand her make up and overdone tanning and hair. For two, he's just a little better than a wooden stick. And as great as their OD is, I still don't see much musicality or "dance" in it. And that split as her end pose is just down right scary. The straightline footwork is great though, I have to give them that. They have good edges and her lines are superb, but I agree, I really don't see anything else beyond that. And their Pink Panter...that FD should not get a 5.8 even when skated perfectly, let alone 9 6.0s.
On the other hand, I've never understood the criticism on Denkova's lines. She points her toes all the time (unlike Belbin), and she doesn't have that weird break at the waist like several dancers do. She moves with fluidity and musicality that Navka can only dream of. She's not gifted with Navka's long body line, but she makes the best of what she's been given.
And one just can't compare someone like Kostomarov to Maxim Staviyski.

[soogar]

N&K is a fabulous team and at least they skated a program with dance holds and face to face dancing unlike the the other teams who seem like they're trying to be pairs skaters with all the spins and the lifts. I thought that there was supposed to be a deduction if a skater rotatated more than 3 times in a dance routine in place? G&G were doing these pairs' spins that seemed to go on forever.

N&K are extremely sharp and looked like ballroom dancers. She is absolutely fabulous and as for the overly tan look: hey check out a ballroom dance competition and all the ladies are working the bronze skin.

The Bulgarians had a really nice , artistic program but I think that the judges might prefer a more traditional dance look, esp after they made all those rules to combat the theatrical skating in 1992. I thought N&K had great unison and I really liked that they did not have lyrics in their free dance. Because they didn't have lyrics, they werre able to splice several different speeds of music and have it all flow together which is almost impossible to do with lyrics. It allows for a more varied pace which I'm sure the judges were looking at as well.

[Mathman]

Doris, thanks for that informative run-down. Dance is the discipline that I know the least about, so I appreciate your expert view.

To the novice viewer (me), Navka and Kostamorov just look better than anyone else out there, because of their line and flow.

About Belbin and Agosto, it took me a long time to come around to being a big fan. I thought that Lang and Tchernyshev were much better. But more and more I am catching on to B&A's youthful energy and pizzaz. (I got to meet them at the Winter cheesefest -- what sweet kids!)

About Chait and Sahknovsky, I just love Sahknovsky's look. Count Dracula meets the Phantom of the Opera. He is spellbinding to watch. Chait needs more oomp and oo la la to match him, in my humble opinion.

But their meteoric rise and equally startling decline make it hard for me to dismiss charges of behind-the-scenes politicking in the sport.

Mathman

[mike79]

I personally really like N&K, as well as D&S. I think what separates them is that N&K make everything look finished, as opposed to D&S who have more footwork and difficulty. The gap between them and the rest of the field is huge.

[Ptichka]

To me, N&K have more of a presence on the ice than D&S. OTOH, I agree that this year D&S had a more challenging routine, and the results therefore should have been different.

W&L... I have no idea how they ended up with bronze. ABC did not show G&G, but they did show B&A, and they were better than W&L.

As to C&S... Just as most of the figure-skating-watching population, I disagreed with their bronze in '02. However, since then I think they've been getting too low placements. I would have placed them just after B&A; probably ahead of W&L.

Overall, I think it's really between B&K and D&S for the 1st/2nd; between G&G and B&A for the 3d/4th. Among Del&Sh, D&L, and C&S for 5th/6th/7th. Then there are two younger teams -- Faella & Scalli and Domnina & Shabalin. They continue to make great strides each season, and can really end up anywhere on this list.

[Kateri]

What mistakes did G-G make in the free dance - I must have missed it. If so, I'll stop moaning about W/L getting bronze...promise!

I wasn't a big fan of the G/G FD either way, I'd have had them lower as well as W/L really. I don't really know who I think should have got bronze!!

Re: N/K, I really like them, but am not mad on their FD this year, thought D/S's was harder. But N/K are real dancers, beautiful to watch.

C/S.....just love him. Love him. But I do think they suffer from a lot of negative feelings after their bronze, the petition, the rumours of her father threatening people....the ice dance community won't forget it in a hurry, even if it wasn't their fault. Real shame, I like them a lot. But their placing this year was fair - really not sure about their FD, and real problems in the other sections too. Sigh.

kateri.