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Thread: Artistry and Scoring Amongst the Youngsters

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    Artistry and Scoring Amongst the Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    After US nats, I was convinced that a rivalry would develop between Julia and Polina Edmunds. Now not so sure, but still have very high hopes for Polina.
    On a side note, can anyone explain why Polina was scored so low? That jump she does with the half-loop looks incredibly difficult. It's almost mind boggling how she scored so low at the Olympics, and especially at Worlds. I cannot accept the "she will score higher as she's more well known" commentary. A sport should be based off of merit and ability, not longevity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatefan17 View Post
    On a side note, can anyone explain why Polina was scored so low? That jump she does with the half-loop looks incredibly difficult. It's almost mind boggling how she scored so low at the Olympics, and especially at Worlds. I cannot accept the "she will score higher as she's more well known" commentary. A sport should be based off of merit and ability, not longevity.
    You're going to have to accept it. Everyone goes thru it. Once she fixes her artistry and has an actual presentation her scores will rise but honestly to me....she got as good of scores as she deserved. Top 10 anything for a fifteen year old with practically no international experience is pretty good. Especially with how poorly her transitions score...right around 7

    Sure she has the tech but her artistry is really lacking. As a Yulia fan I can reassure you that artistry can be improved upon over a season or two. Yulia grew so much over the course of this season alone. In sure Polona is capable. Count me as a fan but...she really is a bit rough and borderline clunky ATM. I see a bright future for her though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    You're going to have to accept it. Everyone goes thru it. Once she fixes her artistry and has an actual presentation her scores will rise but honestly to me....she got as good of scores as she deserved. Top 10 anything for a fifteen year old with practically no international experience is pretty good. Especially with how poorly her transitions score...right around 7
    Is Polina's artistry actually that much worse than Yulia's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous penguin View Post
    Is Polina's artistry actually that much worse than Yulia's?
    A lot!!! Alright maybe just some but mostly a lot . Polina didn't go thru the same Junior process (multiple seasons)that these Russians went thru. It's a huge advantage for the Russians that they ALL competed much more frequently on juniour circuit. They went thru a lot of the polishing there that Polina is going thru at the Olympics and Worlds and likely next GP season. Maybe it's smarter to have Polina get two senior top tens at WOG and WC than risk another 4th or 5th at JWC like what happened to her at JGPF this year.

    I remember when Yulia's was that bad...last season even. We're talking a point per PCS here. Polina was rushed in and it's apparent she lacks experience. It will come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous penguin View Post
    Is Polina's artistry actually that much worse than Yulia's?
    Yes, by a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    You're going to have to accept it. Everyone goes thru it. Once she fixes her artistry and has an actual presentation her scores will rise but honestly to me....she got as good of scores as she deserved. Top 10 anything for a fifteen year old with practically no international experience is pretty good. Especially with how poorly her transitions score...right around 7

    Sure she has the tech but her artistry is really lacking. As a Yulia fan I can reassure you that artistry can be improved upon over a season or two. Yulia grew so much over the course of this season alone. In sure Polona is capable. Count me as a fan but...she really is a bit rough and borderline clunky ATM. I see a bright future for her though

    With all due respect, I need to disagree re: artistry. To me, Polina has a much stronger connection to her music than Yulia, although clearly Polina has a lot of maturing to do. I've watched Yulia many times hoping to see what you do. Her jumps and spins knock my socks off (especially the spins!) but in terms of presentation she still leaves me cold. Still, that's only my opinion -- not looking to convert you!

    I do think you're right about Polina's scores, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    With all due respect, I need to disagree re: artistry. To me, Polina has a much stronger connection to her music than Yulia, although clearly Polina has a lot of maturing to do. I've watched Yulia many times hoping to see what you do. Her jumps and spins knock my socks off (especially the spins!) but in terms of presentation she still leaves me cold. Still, that's only my opinion -- not looking to convert you!
    I agree about Yulia's lack of musicality. She has learned to skate to the music by rote, making the appropriate facial expressions and arm gestures. But while her skating is precise, she is almost like a machine, and has in fact made mention that as far as she is concerned, there is no emotion in figure skating. It is all business with her. You can see that at the end of "Schindler" when she makes that sad face at the end and then boom! just like that she steps out of character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I agree about Yulia's lack of musicality. She has learned to skate to the music by rote, making the appropriate facial expressions and arm gestures. But while her skating is precise, she is almost like a machine, and has in fact made mention that as far as she is concerned, there is no emotion in figure skating. It is all business with her. You can see that at the end of "Schindler" when she makes that sad face at the end and then boom! just like that she steps out of character.
    She is very expressive though. I don't see that in Polina ...YET. That effects the presentation scores a lot does it not.

    Btw- Yulia said she sees no point in emotion if the elements aren't there. Not there is no need for emotion in figure skating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I agree about Yulia's lack of musicality. She has learned to skate to the music by rote, making the appropriate facial expressions and arm gestures. But while her skating is precise, she is almost like a machine, and has in fact made mention that as far as she is concerned, there is no emotion in figure skating. It is all business with her. You can see that at the end of "Schindler" when she makes that sad face at the end and then boom! just like that she steps out of character.
    I wouldn't say NO emotion. Figure skaters practice programs, so they have to "turn on" emotions... especially for something like Schindler's List where you obviously don't go through your day to day exhibiting that type of emotion and need to switch it on when you perform. Like any actress, you learn it by rote.... however, Julia has yet to still make it feel natural and genuine. Which is understanding, given her age. As Dick Button says, you have to carry your entrance and exit on and off the ice... if you skate well to an emotional piece like Schindler's List, the "correct" emotion isn't a fist pump, it's a gracious bow and a slight smile. In the K&C, that's when you turn on the smile. I agree that a celebration at the end of an emotional or "sad" performance breaks the spell that the skater has created, even if they're happy they skated clean.

    Julia's musicality will come with time. I mean, it was her 2nd season as a senior. Rome wasn't built in a day, so people shouldn't expect it to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I agree about Yulia's lack of musicality. She has learned to skate to the music by rote, making the appropriate facial expressions and arm gestures. But while her skating is precise, she is almost like a machine, and has in fact made mention that as far as she is concerned, there is no emotion in figure skating. It is all business with her. You can see that at the end of "Schindler" when she makes that sad face at the end and then boom! just like that she steps out of character.
    Yes, that's it. I remember hearing something about her comment re: emotion but didn't completely understand it and it's also possible that something got lost in translation. There's a "paint-by-numbers" quality about her skating that disconcerts me. It disappoints me, too, because her talent is phenomenal. As she matures, I hope she's able to develop an expressivity that truly comes from her heart. Wishing her well!

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    Yulia made this American who really doesn't care that much about ice skating a fan.

    Personally I like her style and personality. Shes not phony. She doesn't pander.


    About Edmunds. Didn't she just a few months ago lose to three Russian Junior girls. And finished just above Proklova who I would take over Polina in a heartbeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I agree about Yulia's lack of musicality. She has learned to skate to the music by rote, making the appropriate facial expressions and arm gestures. But while her skating is precise, she is almost like a machine, and has in fact made mention that as far as she is concerned, there is no emotion in figure skating. It is all business with her. You can see that at the end of "Schindler" when she makes that sad face at the end and then boom! just like that she steps out of character.
    Nonsense. Yulia is magical. She doesn't have to pose anything or make any sad faces because she is absolutely natural. She doesn't have to act anything because she IS the character.
    And compare this to fake Ave Maria facial annoying grimaces by Carolina. Or "oh I am such a super-diva" by Yuna. They are all actresses. They all play it. Yulia doesn't have to do it. She is what she portrays.
    And you are talking about being "robotic". If opposite to "robotic" are forced bogus and over-the-top dramatic poses and faces, then I prefer that "robotic". Sorry!
    Plus, she is a kid! And she she is admired for being a kid. For portraying a kid. For not doing anything extra because she just IS a kid. That's why she has fans.
    I don't want any 15-yrs old diva with fake acting. She has time for that! Actually, Pogorilaya is like that and I don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CezarMart View Post
    Nonsense. Yulia is magical. She doesn't have to pose anything or make any sad faces because she is absolutely natural. She doesn't have to act anything because she IS the character.
    And compare this to fake Ave Maria facial annoying grimaces by Carolina. Or "oh I am such a super-diva" by Yuna. They are all actresses. They all play it. Yulia doesn't have to do it. She is what she portrays.
    And you are talking about being "robotic". If opposite to "robotic" are forced bogus and over-the-top dramatic poses and faces, then I prefer that "robotic". Sorry!
    Not sure if serious or sarcastic. If it's the former, lmao.

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    Quote Originally Posted by izradria View Post
    Not sure if serious or sarcastic. If it's the former, lmao.
    Well, I lmao at you

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    Quote Originally Posted by izradria View Post
    Not sure if serious or sarcastic. If it's the former, lmao.
    I sense a strong amount of seriousness. I don't think Yuna or Caro act, though. They are classy.

    But I do think CrzarMart has a point. Yulia is not fake. At least isn't to me. She is loved because she is childlike, which indeed she is. She is loved partly because she is immature, which is true because she is still a kid. She's natural.

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