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Thread: Artistry and Scoring Amongst the Youngsters

  1. #16
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    This all started because I, someone with a Yulia avatar, answered a simple question about why Polina scored so low at Olympics and Worlds. When I pointed out that Polina really lacks in presentation, which it shows on ice and on the protocols, instead of people presenting evidence to the contrary, which I did with Yulia's SP(specifically 2a quality), people instead chose to say Yulia is an emotionless robot. Where specifically is Polina's artistry that the judges and I missed. Where its improved, emotional, etc... And tell me specifically why she doesn't deserve 7.0's and 6.75's on her performance scores? Do we really need to discuss Polina's transitions too. That is all I said. Not that Polina stinks. That her score is affected by her lack of presentation and transition/footwork. Why Yulia is getting dragged in is purely due to my fandom I believe.

    I actually think given Polina's lack of experience she did quite well in both. Two top 10 finishes at OG's and WC's is Pretty good. I expect big things out of her in the next three years.

    Again...Yulia only said...emotion is useless without the elements. Not that there is no emotion in figure skating like some here said.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CezarMart View Post
    Well, I lmao at you


    I don't find Julia natural at all. She "fake acts" just like other skaters, if not worse. Nothing special about her in that aspect. She's 15, so I'll hold out hope she'll become more authentic and less of a cyborg. I don't understand how you say she doesn't have to pose or do any of the gimmicks those other fake, unrealistic skaters do when it's glaring in her programs from this past season.

    Anyway, I hope Park So Youn does well next season. Maybe she'll finally win Korean Nationals this time around. I also see Pogorilaya giving Julia and the rest of the russian wonderbabies some serious competition.

  3. #18
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    Sorry, Yulia may be young but she is super shrewd. She knows what sells, and what sells "Schindler" are the fake facial expressions at the beginning and end of the program. That she can slide so easily into and out of them reveals how fake those expressions really are. If you watch her face as she actually skates the program, you see a skater who is ticking off boxes, not a performer who is into the music and spirit of the piece. She relies on those 'takes' at beginning and end for her 'interpretation'. And BTW, she uses those exact same gimmicks for her SP.

    That is why I'm not buying what she is selling. To my eyes, she is legitimately talented as a skater, but performance-wise she is robotic, and does not rate the ridiculously high PCS scores she gets.

  4. #19
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sorry, Yulia may be young but she is super shrewd. She knows what sells, and what sells "Schindler" are the fake facial expressions at the beginning and end of the program. That she can slide so easily into and out of them reveals how fake those expressions really are. If you watch her face as she actually skates the program, you see a skater who is ticking off boxes, not a performer who is into the music and spirit of the piece. She relies on those 'takes' at beginning and end for her 'interpretation'. And BTW, she uses those exact same gimmicks for her SP.

    That is why I'm not buying what she is selling. To my eyes, she is legitimately talented as a skater, but performance-wise she is robotic, and does not rate the ridiculously high PCS scores she gets.
    So explain to me what Polina does that is superior. It's easy to exaggerate how "bad" Yulia is but can you honestly point out Polina's great pcs deserving elements/artistry.

  5. #20
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    There really is no "correct" answer about whether Yulia is a powerful, genuine performer or if she's just a cruddy robotic actor. She connects to some people; she doesn't to others. I can only hope that she genuinely touched the judges and that's why they're giving her monster scores.

    I personally find it strange that everyone's talking about Schindler's List, when her short program actually touched me more. Yes, it "sells" her childlike vulnerability. And I bought whatever she was selling. Poor me.

  6. #21
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    ^did you see the two videos I posted on the last page. Her SP before GP and at Worlds are drastically improved...technically and artistically!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    That is why I'm not buying what she is selling. To my eyes, she is legitimately talented as a skater, but performance-wise she is robotic, and does not rate the ridiculously high PCS scores she gets.
    You know what? It's a prediction thread, and I don't predict anything because every time I do that I screw my fave.
    So we can only insult each other over a skater's artistry, or lack thereof, and we will go nowhere because everybody has own ideas what is "shmartistic" or "robotic" and what is not. I only humbly hope she will be good enough the next season, and the seasons after that, to win all possible golds, because her talent deserves it.

    And I can't tolerate fake divas, I am allergic to them, this is why I prefer raw natural characters. And I tell you, saying that Yulia is cynically "selling a character" is pure rude and ill-intended. And not to me as I don't care, but to the child who has nothing to do with this "selling or buying". It's your ill-intended mind that is creating those inflammatory remarks.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    There really is no "correct" answer about whether Yulia is a powerful, genuine performer or if she's just a cruddy robotic actor. She connects to some people; she doesn't to others. I can only hope that she genuinely touched the judges and that's why they're giving her monster scores.

    I personally find it strange that everyone's talking about Schindler's List, when her short program actually touched me more. Yes, it "sells" her childlike vulnerability. And I bought whatever she was selling. Poor me.
    This one hundred times...

  9. #24
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izradria View Post
    Not sure if serious or sarcastic. If it's the former, lmao.
    It has to be.

    And to those who say she doesn't act. Oh please. There's so much acting in her Schindler's List with all those dramatic faces and pauses. In fact, that's one thing that turns me off that program in addition to the fact that it so monotonous and frantic.

    I really can't wait for Radionova, Proklova, Sotskova and Sakhanovic all turn seniors. To me, they are all better skaters than Julia with better skating skills and much better and more genuine musicality. People compare her to a young Sasha Cohen, whom I used to criticize for being all show and no emotions. But honestly Julia made me realize just how harsh I had been with Cohen. At least Sasha listened to the music and moved with style. Julia? Not so much.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CezarMart View Post
    You know what? It's a prediction thread, and I don't predict anything because every time I do that I screw my fave.
    So we can only insult each other over a skater's artistry, or lack thereof, and we will go nowhere because everybody has own ideas what is "shmartistic" or "robotic" and what is not. I only humbly hope she will be good enough the next season, and the seasons after that, to win all possible golds, because her talent deserves it.

    And I can't tolerate fake divas, I am allergic to them, this is why I prefer raw natural characters. And I tell you, saying that Yulia is cynically "selling a character" is pure rude and ill-intended. And not to me as I don't care, but to the child who has nothing to do with this "selling or buying". It's your ill-intended mind that is creating those inflammatory remarks.
    You say that the Julia criticisms are "rude and ill-intended," but a couple posts back (and the one quoted above) you literally called Carolina's Ave Maria full of annoying and cringe-worthy expressions, Yuna an attention-seeking diva, and every other skater, apart from the all-natural-all-genuine Julia, unrealistic and fake. I mean...still not sure if serious or seriously sarcastic.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    It has to be.

    And to those who say she doesn't act. Oh please. There's so much acting in her Schindler's List with all those dramatic faces and pauses. In fact, that's one thing that turns me off that program in addition to the fact that she never changes the way she moves no matter what the music is doing. It's all so monotonous and frantic.
    Taking the constructive path from the mutual insults I have to say that at the end of the season all programs appear to be old and tired. ALL OF THEM. What was inspiring, pure and beautiful at the beginning of the season, when performed one hundred times over many months they become worn out, blank and meaningless. How many times can you keep reheating old lunch? No matter how good it was when it was fresh.
    And again: it applies to ALL performances. ALL.

  12. #27
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    I'm not sure Polinas PCS belongs on par with Julia but I think the differences between them on GOE on the jumps is ridiculous. And spins as well but to a lesser degree. Polina is very very good technically and I didn't think the judges went as crazy for her elements which were often just as good as the top names. That said I do think Julia's PCS meteoric rise this season was ridiculous though I do like her very much.

    I do not see any big difference however between her and Gracie with regards to choreo, interpretation and performance/execution. I expect her PCS will bump up similarly next year and really she's already much more lyrical and musical than Gracie.

  13. #28
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    I know figure skating is subjective, but I will never be able to understand how anyone can call Kostner's Ave Maria from Worlds fake or annoying. Especially when they are praising Lipnitskaya's Schinder's List to high heavens.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sorry, Yulia may be young but she is super shrewd. She knows what sells, and what sells "Schindler" are the fake facial expressions at the beginning and end of the program. That she can slide so easily into and out of them reveals how fake those expressions really are. If you watch her face as she actually skates the program, you see a skater who is ticking off boxes, not a performer who is into the music and spirit of the piece. She relies on those 'takes' at beginning and end for her 'interpretation'. And BTW, she uses those exact same gimmicks for her SP.
    That is why I'm not buying what she is selling. To my eyes, she is legitimately talented as a skater, but performance-wise she is robotic, and does not rate the ridiculously high PCS scores she gets.
    Oh my. I can't believe I actually agree with everything chuckm said here. What's the world coming to?
    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    I'm not sure Polinas PCS belongs on par with Julia but I think the differences between them on GOE on the jumps is ridiculous. And spins as well but to a lesser degree. Polina is very very good technically and I didn't think the judges went as crazy for her elements which were often just as good as the top names. That said I do think Julia's PCS meteoric rise this season was ridiculous though I do like her very much.
    Julia currently may have the elements (except for jumps) over Polina, but she has nothing on Polina when it comes to actual skating skills. Julia may appear "neater" to the viewer, but that's partly because Polina is looking all gangly due to her long limbs and awkward teenage phase. I'm sure she'll soon grow into her body and become more refined. She already skates bigger and has way more musicality.

  14. #29
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    EVERYBODY acts to some extent. That's part of performance. The only question is how well they do it.

    I personally like programs that are "story-driven," hence why I enjoy Yulia's two programs. Some people may feel that it comes across as "fake" or whatever. Maybe they want some pure musical interpretation or whatever that even is. That's fine. I hope Yulia continues with her lovely story-driven programs and they don't feel fake to me at all. Whether the judges will reward her for them... we'll see.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post

    Julia currently may have the elements (except for jumps) over Polina, but she has nothing on Polina when it comes to actual skating skills. Julia may appear "neater" to the viewer, but that's partly because Polina is looking all gangly due to her long limbs and awkward teenage phase. I'm sure she'll soon grow into her body and become more refined. She already skates bigger and has way more musicality.
    I mostly agree. I think many fans have refused to warm up to Polina or acknowledge how good she is because of a huge misconception IMO that she stole Mirai's spot. The reality is she outskated both Mirai and Ashley at Nationals and her Olympic berth was likely never in question. She's musical, consistent, has the tech goods, has great basic skating skills- probably our best prospect since Cohen was 15. She improved from Nationals to Olympics to Worlds where her FS was absolutely beautiful. I can't wait to see what she does next year and won't be surprised in the least if she makes the GPF and ends up US champion

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