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Thread: Artistry and Scoring Amongst the Youngsters

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I think I started it by suggesting what I thought were the reasons for Polina's low scores. I wasn't intending to be anything but honest. No disrespect intended as I have nothing but admiration for Polina and what I thought was a successful senior debut. I may think Yulia is better but that's just my taste. It's clearly my avatar's fault.

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    Posts moved.

    For future reference if you want the mods to do something, just report the post!

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Thank you!! Will do.

    Mrs. P

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    Custom Title ahy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izradria View Post

    Anyway, I hope Park So Youn does well next season. Maybe she'll finally win Korean Nationals this time around. I also see Pogorilaya giving Julia and the rest of the russian wonderbabies some serious competition.
    Exactly, i think that So Youn has the inner musicality that makes her more enjoyable to watch, i hope she can really gain more confident so SK can have one more figure skating star!

  6. #51
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Agree! Some skaters don't need a cheerful light hearted skater to fill their figure skating needs. I personally enjoy both but prefer a more serious calculated approach. It is a sport and as such requires a certain amount of attention to details. It's refreshing compared to some of the ice princess themes currently put there. But to each their own. I'mhoping Polina comes along nicely. Maybe her learning curve is as good as Yulia's. only time will tell. Until then I'm left to count the medals and stand up for what I think is good skating. I'd be surprised to see Polina pass Yulia this year but I wouldn't take that as a negative in any way. She is pretty good.
    Of course they don't. I have loved quite a number of introverted skaters such as Matt Savoie and Jeremy Abbott over the years. I also don't really prefer one type of programs over another. I just love good choreography and good / genuine interpretation. The problem I have with Julia's LP is that it doesn't come across as genuine, nor is it musical. From beginning to end, it appears she is ticking off the boxes like another poster said. The way she moves never changes with the phrasing and dynamics of the music. And I don't like the fact that she has to rely on using something like Schindler's List to appeal to the audience because the music naturally triggers all the emotions associated with the movie, and she made it even more obvious by dressing up as a girl in the red coat. Is it really the music that moves you, or is it the skating itself? And to me she has to do this because of the limitations she has in interpreting a piece of music.

    And you know what, all of this all wouldn't have been a problem for me and I wouldn't have been so critical. To me the program is a good vehicle, smartly designed to cover weaknesses and use strength (naturally solemn facial expression) if not somewhat gimmicky and its intention too obvious. And you can't be that critical regarding the artistic development of a 15-year-old. But it's when I started reading all these exaggerated praises (and the Spielberg letter? Oh please.) that I started to have this repelling feeling against the program. Same goes with Lipnitskaya's skating in general. I think she's a pretty talented up and coming skater, with her strengths being having some outstanding elements and skating with good polish (she comes across very clean, nothing dangly). But some of the praises I've seen of her just leave me scratching my head. On the other hand, Polina's LP was musical and expressive without the dramatic facial expression or relying on playing a role. Her expressiveness is rooted in real musicality and how her movement responds to the changes in the music. I love the way she moves. I also love her circular steps. They are so musical and have some of the best edges and turns I've seen in skating.

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Predictions for next season: The more silly of the Yuliatrons try and rip Joshua Farris apart for "copying Yulia", but can only sit and watch as the rest of the world realises that this is what an actual Schindler's List looks like.
    Too true.

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    So which youngsters do you think are more promising? According to you Yulia is a fraud who can't skate very well but hides it by playing good music that hypnotizes the judges into giving her 5 golds and 3 silvers in 9 competitions and venue after venue giving her standing ovations. We've all been fooled! Tell me this. Who deserved those medals amongst the youngsters more and more importantly what did they do and at what points in their programs are they more artistic. I'm willing to listen here but maybe instead of just tearing Yulia's effort apart you could maybe shed light on the positive movements of other youngsters. I'd be much more interested in that than a two paragraph essay on your dislike for someone.


    You say you enjoy good choero. Me too. Lets discuss Yulia's choreographed sequence. To me Yulia's Ina Bauer and the way her arms go limp is absolutely stunning and could easily be interpreted to represent tragic demise of many in the Schindlers list. She makes one turn and presents what I would say is the most artistic and beautiful spiral of the season. During so she reaches out one last time and pulls whatever is left toward her heart and then enters her final spin.

    Please tell me which youngsters are more artistic and most importantly where in their programs so I can rewatch and look for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    According to you Yulia is a fraud who can't skate very well but hides it by playing good music that hypnotizes the judges into giving her 5 golds and 3 silvers in 9 competitions and venue after venue giving her standing ovations. We've all been fooled! Tell me this.
    Yes, this!
    Yulia is hypnotizing the judges and the audience, possibly releasing special gasses all over the arena for mass mind control, while Adelina is paying them millions with Putin's money. Some people on this forum even saw it with their own eyes as Adelina was handing over suitcases filled with dollars to the judges. They even saw Putin's signatures on those suitcases. Some members, like pangpangpangpangfan for example, have even proof for that.

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    ^I apreciate your support but we should continue to discuss the skaters artistic developments or this will just turn into another angry Yuna lost thread. Ugh. Do you have a favorite young skater and if you do why? I really like Serafima Sakhanovich and think she is really artistic with great SS! Kind of clunky landings but she'll fix that now that she'll be skating with Eteri and her group for at least this summer.

    Here is a video at 2014 Nationals. Her strength is her artistry. Her spins and jumps need work but this is an artistry thread!!
    http://youtu.be/sEwHz2Dwvig

    Step Sequence at 1:20 is amazing for someone that young. Her spins are crazy traveling and she lands hunched up but Yulia fixed it with Eteri and I wouldn't be surprised to see Serafima fix her spins there too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    So which youngsters do you think are more promising? According to you Yulia is a fraud who can't skate very well but hides it by playing good music that hypnotizes the judges into giving her 5 golds and 3 silvers in 9 competitions and venue after venue giving her standing ovations. We've all been fooled! Tell me this. Who deserved those medals amongst the youngsters more and more importantly what did they do and at what points in their programs are they more artistic. I'm willing to listen here but maybe instead of just tearing Yulia's effort apart you could maybe shed light on the positive movements of other youngsters. I'd be much more interested in that than a two paragraph essay on your dislike for someone.

    Please tell me which youngsters are more artistic and most importantly where in their programs so I can rewatch and look for it.
    Perhaps there are some youngsters out there with great artistry that get buried in the standings because they don't have the jumps, but none of the current ones with the big tech marks have the artistry to match. In my opinion, Yulia skates very well for a fifteen year old, and her artistry is what you would expect for someone her age. However, she is getting component scores similar to the more refined, mature skaters (Carolina, Mao, Yuna). I brought up Polina because I felt that Yulia's components should be closer to hers than, say, Carolina's.

    Yulia places in practically every competition because she has incredible consistency. I don't, however, believe that other posters were "tearing Yulia's effort apart". They were simply pointing out flaws in her presentation. For me, I don't necessarily think that someone like Polina should be getting higher scores, and therefore don't feel there is a need to point out things she did well since I'm not trying to justify giving her higher marks. However, I do believe that Yulia's components should be lower, and therefore pointing out problems I see is not unnecessary.

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    I'm no expert, but while I really like Yulia, and I think she really improved in her expression during the last few years, I must say that she isn't a natural performer like say Elena Radionova or Asada and Kim at her age... I think that her programms this year were perfect for her, but I fear that some less well built programs may really undermine her artistic improvement... tha said many of the gratest skater of all time started as jumping bean and then evolved, and I'm pretty sure that she has got enogh talent to become one of the Great with capital G...

    Re polina, sorry but I found her way too rough and even though she as some interpretation I wouldn't say she is better than Yulia even in that right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by jace93 View Post
    I'm no expert, but while I really like Yulia, and I think she really improved in her expression during the last few years, I must say that she isn't a natural performer like say Elena Radionova or Asada and Kim at her age... I think that her programms this year were perfect for her, but I fear that some less well built programs may really undermine her artistic improvement... tha said many of the gratest skater of all time started as jumping bean and then evolved, and I'm pretty sure that she has got enogh talent to become one of the Great with capital G...

    Re polina, sorry but I found her way too rough and even though she as some interpretation I wouldn't say she is better than Yulia even in that right now
    I agree. Polina's skating is pretty good. But there's just some sort of disconnect in the skating. Her arm movements are very graceful but the movement of her feet is a bit choppier. Her skate at the WC was very forced on the jumps, she was setting up very carefully for each one and it ruined some of the momentum of her program. Still, she had two very good programs and I think she will definitely contend for medals next year.

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    To me, there is no argument that Radionova and Alexandra Proklova have passed Julia in "artistry", who are also natural performers. Yes, Julia is only 15, but artistry can be achieved at a younger age. Her Schindler's list never moved me, but I do love the music. A lot of young girls, similar to her age or slightly older, however, think that program makes them cry
    I agree that Polina is underscored compared with what Julia gets, not really compared with other new comers first year on the international stage. Julia's initial high PCS is probably transferred from her crazy spins.

  14. #59
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    http://youtu.be/-5j8Sk9nSfU
    All right then show me. Where in this program specifically does Polina reach a level artistically equal to Yulia's Ina Bauer and spiral choreographed sequence? I'm no hater of Polina but please share what marks in this skate have better transitions/artistic presentation/ connection to the music etc...

    I see shades of Carolina in Polina which is exciting but her feet are still clunky. Her arms cover it up pretty well but let's be real. She will likely surpass Gracie in a few years but now...I'm not seeing it. Willing to be convinced.

    Comparing Radinova to Yulia doesn't work. Yulia is soulful while Elena is a performer. BTW- love them both!!!

    I think Proklova is a Yulia/Elena combo that will satisfy many fans for years to come. Elena's showmanship and Yulia's flexibility. I can see why people like her. I do.

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    Is it baffling to anyone else that a perfect performance back in 2006, 2007 might get mostly 7's in PCS...but the very top skaters nowadays get almost straight 9's, even if they have a splatfest? Carolina being one example..

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