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Thread: Does Plushenko's longevity make him a better skater than Yagudin?

  1. #136
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous penguin View Post
    No, I'm just not looking through rose-tinted glasses.
    good answer...

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    No Plushenko is more popular skater in the world. If you would follow Plushy you know it...
    plushyfan, I love Plushy too. Very, very, much. But to use social media stats as an argument for his greatness is lunacy.

    Do any of Plushy's videos have more than 4.4 million hits? And have any of them acquired those hits in the space of a week? There you go, using your logic, I just made an argument for Jason Brown being the greatest skater of all time.

    You cannot, cannot, cannot use social media as an argument.

  3. #138
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    plushyfan, I love Plushy too. Very, very, much. But to use social media stats as an argument for his greatness is lunacy.

    Do any of Plushy's videos have more than 4.4 million hits? And have any of them acquired those hits in the space of a week? There you go, using your logic, I just made an argument for Jason Brown being the greatest skater of all time.

    You cannot, cannot, cannot use social media as an argument.
    I knew a Plushy's Sex Bomb video with 3 million viewers. That was deleted. But the Sex Bomb videos - there are many videos on Youtube also has 4 millions now. BTW i understand you, I agree with you and disagree with you. I believe the followers show the account owner's popularity..

    You are right, I would finish this debate but I read many new fals things again and again, what are show the posters are so uninformed about Plushy. And I'm full of informations and I can't stand that I don't write those . Sorry... I move on......

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    to nafsf!

    Where did you read that Stef prefer Yagudin? I never read that. I'm just curious and I would like to read that interview and download to my computer.. if you remember the link..
    I believe it's on his website, about personal interest. although I cann't find it now, I do find another link.
    http://stephanelambielheartonice.blo...interessi.html

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I knew a Plushy's Sex Bomb video with 3 million viewers. That was deleted. But the Sex Bomb videos - there are many videos on Youtube also has 4 millions now. BTW i understand you, I agree with you and disagree with you. I believe the followers show the account owner's popularity..
    I didn't see any plushy's sex bomb over 3 millions. the one i saw is about 1.2 million.

    On NICO, one Japan video website, I key in "figure skating" and the most hit one is sex bomb, about 1.1 million. second is yagudin's overcome mixed with star war, 1.0 million. third is plushenko's russian national cup nijinski, 711 thousands. 4th Hanyu 532 thousands. And on Youku, the Chinese video website, johnny weir's poker face has 3.7 million hits!

    Hit number doesn't determine if an athlete is good either. But at least it can show how people (most of them may not be figure skating fan and do not know about technique) enjoy the program.

  6. #141
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nafsf View Post
    I didn't see any plushy's sex bomb over 3 millions. the one i saw is about 1.2 million.

    On NICO, one Japan video website, I key in "figure skating" and the most hit one is sex bomb, about 1.1 million. second is yagudin's overcome mixed with star war, 1.0 million. third is plushenko's russian national cup nijinski, 711 thousands. 4th Hanyu 532 thousands. And on Youku, the Chinese video website, johnny weir's poker face has 3.7 million hits!

    Hit number doesn't determine if an athlete is good either. But at least it can show how people (most of them may not be figure skating fan and do not know about technique) enjoy the program.
    Probably I was equivocal. I wrote there are many sex bomb videos those videos have 4 million viewes in total . I knew about Johnny's videos popularity. My chinese friend told me when she talked about the Artisry on ice shows..if I right remember well...
    I remember Hanyu's Romeo and Juliett 2012 . That video had more than 1 million viewers...But that was also deleted ...

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Let's just say if Salt Lake City 2002 were Sochi 2014, I do believe the number of people who would find Yagudin more appealing would be much much larger.
    But of course, Plushenko have a star quality that not many one could rival.
    Agreed. I preferred Yagudin back in the day, and I still prefer his 2002 FS to Plushy's 2006 FS, but that doesn't mean Plushy is any "lesser". In fact, he's a national treasure in Russia from what I understand: Tiger Woods, Beyonce / Jay-Z and Madonna all rolled into one, that's how famous / beloved he is (well maybe not so much with Tiger Woods nowadays but you get my point).

    And Plushy absolutely has that X Factor that no one could buy or manufacture. You can't conjure that out of thin air. One has it or doesn't. Zhenya has had it for the last three Olympics, IMO. No one could outshine him, even when he withdrew from the men's SP, the talk was STILL all about him.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post

    They are both greats. Yagudin's hips robbed us of another four years of magic, but what we did get to see was utterly magnificent. Think about it - it's taken TWELVE YEARS to get figure skating back to the point where these two had driven it at the height of their rivalry. They were the Prost and Senna of their sport.
    I would argue that figure skating still is not at the height Yagudin and Plushenko achieved in the early 2000s, especially given the fall laden Sochi final. At least at their best you knew when the pressure was on that one and most times both would hit and lay down a stellar performance.

  9. #144
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    I respect the Plush fans who have been very open-minded to discussing ideas contrary to theirs.

    But my view remains the same - I feel his "passion" is histrionic and pretentious, not an actual, genuine emotional connection that I felt from other skaters.

  10. #145
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    Well, er, now this isn't a dangerous thread at all, is it?

    What's indisputable: Better career goes to Plushenko. We can rail and cry about how Yagudin's injury cut off his potential, or that he "won" their rivalry, but the results speak for themselves.

    Better skater? Well, we can debate that for the ages to come. Ultimately, "better skater" just translates to "my favourite skater"/"whose style I prefer."

    Speaking for myself, I love both skaters but Plushenko has the edge. I think they were both great technicians and great artists. I get why some people may find Plush's style not to their taste, or others would believe Yagudin coasted on the strength of his programs and not due to his own interpretive skill or whatnot. But for me, they both brought expressiveness to the ice along with excellent technical content. Plushenko just had a slight edge in all aspects: better air position and lighter landings on jumps, both had great footwork but I find Nijinsky's just a tiny bit more memorable than Man in the Iron Mask (what I consider their two best performances). Neither were great spinners, but I give Plush credit for his iconic Biellmann, plus he improved his spins under COP and did his best to get the levels. Plush also pushed the technical envelope, while Yagudin was basically doing his best to keep up with what Plush was doing.

    In terms of programs, Yagudin skated basically one type of program and did it really well. Nothing wrong with that. I personally didn't his tired of his "big movie soundtrack" skates. But Plushenko had an incredible diversity. Who else could pull off Michael Jackson, then turn around and do Adagio? They both sold the heck out of their programs, but Plushenko had a more... well, other posters have described it better than me, but the classical balletic lines versus Yagudin.

    So no, if we're going by semantics, Plushenko isn't a "better skater because of his longevity." Just like I don't consider Yuna Kim a better skater than Michelle Kwan because she has an OGM. Just like I won't consider Yuzuru a better skater than Plush even if Yuzuru goes on to win another OGM. For me, Plushenko is the better skater because of his incredible connection with the audience, his diverse range of programs, his technical innovations--and frankly, because I connected with him and his skates far more than Yagudin's. All of that, in addition to his medals, his consistency, his longevity and determination to keep competing.

    I have no problem with people preferring Yagudin. If you're writing a history book on FS history, then you need to give Plushenko his due. But I have no interest in "proving" Plush is the better skater to Yagudin fans (and in return, Yagudin fans aren't gonna have much luck "proving" he's such a better skater than Plush). They're both incredible athletes, and I'm grateful for what their rivalry has done for the sport.

  11. #146
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Plushenko's "longevity" was rather short-lived. He folded after the Olympic team event. So really this question is irrelevant.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    Plushenko's "longevity" was rather short-lived. He folded after the Olympic team event. So really this question is irrelevant.
    Er...

    Four Olympics. Sixteen years as a Senior international.

    If that doesn't fit the word "longevity" for you, I would have to question what does.

  13. #148
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    Nice thread. So many spit fountains.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Yagudin won most of their head-to-heads at the big competitions and seems to be the more beloved one in English-speaking forums, but Plushenko continued and dominated while Yagudin got injured and retired. Do you consider Plushenko greater than Yagudin?
    As is so often the case, the answer will vary depending on whom you ask (and in which country). Plushenko has always been more popular in Russia and always won Russian Nationals, whereas Yagudin beat Plushenko more often internationally. Yagudin became much more popular in America & Canada than Plushenko did, probably as a result of Alexei's deliberate effort in reaching out to North American audiences.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    As is so often the case, the answer will vary depending on whom you ask (and in which country). Plushenko has always been more popular in Russia and always won Russian Nationals, whereas Yagudin beat Plushenko more often internationally. Yagudin became much more popular in America & Canada than Plushenko did, probably as a result of Alexei's deliberate effort in reaching out to North American audiences.


    Although Yagudin didn’t win Russian Champion, he beat Plushenko three times in 96, 97, and 98. And Plushenko won over yagudin in 99, 00 and 01.

    Yagudin did beat Plushenko more often internationally. If only regarding to the main internationally competition (GP, GPF, Euro, World, Olympics). Plushy lost to Yags in each competition they attended since 1997 to 1999. His winning started since 2000, when he won euro and yags won world. 2001 is Plushy’s season and 2002 is Yags’.

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