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Thread: Does Plushenko's longevity make him a better skater than Yagudin?

  1. #16
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    quality over quantity

    If Plush ever did programs at the level of "Winter," then yes, but since he didn't, then no. "St Petersburg 300" is his best program IMO but even then paled in comparison to Yagudin's best.
    But I bet Yagudin couldn't do a Nijinsky program at this level either, http://youtu.be/SEJXkfMYTX4
    They are all unique on their own ways. Greatest skaters of all time!

  2. #17
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    My general impression was that Plushenko did beat Yagudin in quite a lot competitions between 2000-2002. I was never able to see Yagudin as an artistic skater, ditto about Plushenko. Plushenko´s accomplishments are way above of those by Yagudin, because P. had a longer career. In that sense Plushenko is a better skater than Yagudin.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    But I bet Yagudin couldn't do a Nijinsky program at this level either, http://youtu.be/SEJXkfMYTX4
    They are all unique on their own ways. Greatest skaters of all time!
    I believe that is St Petersburg 300, it's a fan video to Edvin Marton's music, whom Plush often skates to, but not this time.

  4. #19
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    I believe that is St Petersburg 300, it's a fan video to Edvin Marton's music, whom Plush often skates to, but not this time.
    It's not a fan vid. This is the same program, but in 2010: http://youtu.be/NFC0Mm80r-w
    Plushenko's Nijinsky in 2004 was his best performance.

    This is St Petersburg 300, completely different program: http://youtu.be/Cy-ZAwL7md0

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Yagudin is easily the better skater. But Plushenko's accomplishments and consistency are more impressive. Yagudin if uninjured probably would have had a more notable career, but he beat Plushenko in the biggest head to head of their careers and has nothing to feel bitter about. He's an Olympic champion and gave arguably the greatest performances ever at the Olympics.

    Yagudin is the better skater, but Plu's longevity makes him the better competitor.
    Plushenko is known by casual vewers, Yagudin only by older viewers or who watched the 2002 Olympics
    a testament even at the 2014 Olympics he was making huge headlines

    that's like saying the double jumpers Gordeeva / Grinkov, lol
    and better than the Great Propotovs and Mihkentouk / Dmitriev

  6. #21
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    No. And there are many other skaters who I think are better than Plushenko.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    But I bet Yagudin couldn't do a Nijinsky program at this level either, http://youtu.be/SEJXkfMYTX4
    They are all unique on their own ways. Greatest skaters of all time!
    Holy mother of god that step sequence!!!

  8. #23
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    If career is similar, 'whose career is better' is not much significant. Talk about program. Plush Only I watch is Nijinski. Yagudin has better programs.

  9. #24
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    Well, it depends what you understand through "career is similar" as they are actually similar just to a point.

  10. #25
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    Yags and Plush always had the same level of programs, The difference was Yags program choices were more "american" and relatable,
    His body was bigger and his arms longer so he seemed more expressive and he was more traditionally handsome, So people attribute better choreography to him, But neither was a master of choreography or spins but it was enough
    back then.

    Plushenko dominated 2001, But i think overall the judges preferred Yagudin if the two were clean.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Yagudin actually has 1 more world title than Plushenko, and depending on your views of the Olympic team gold each could be said to have only 1. So their careers are closer than one might think even considering Yagudin's much shorter career, which could seen as a huge plus in his favor. Basically with half as long a career he still won more individual Olympic and world events than Plushy did. It is worth noting during his rivalry with Yagudin, Plushenko was known for often choking in the big event- worlds and Olympics, skating super consistently like a machine all year, but failing at the big moment. That happened in a huge way at the 2000 worlds where Plushenko had an epic meltdown, allowing Yagudin to win with a subpar free skate. A past his prime Stojko fell on his quad attempt of every program and still won silver that year. Plushenko also faltered at the 98 worlds, 99 worlds, and of course 2002 Olympics.
    Plushenko has the same amount of Olympic titles Yagudin has, Only he has 3 more Olympic medals,
    As for choking, He did do that a lot, But at least managed to win 2000 Europeans and all of the 2001 competitions,
    He didn't choke at the 2001-2 GPF or 1999 Worlds, Just made one small mistake which was enough at both,

    Lucky for him his whole career after Yagudin showed he's the opposite of a choker

  12. #27
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    There are similiarites: each got the gold at their second oly and won a bronze at their first world.


    When comparing Plush with Yag, people forget that Yagudin had 2,5 years more in age and two more years on the big competitions, he was in SLS at his second oly, using the experience of the first, while Plushenko was at his first one. He was more experienced and more mature than Plushenko.

    Actually, i won't dismiss so easy two silver medals at oly, as the oly is so far away from each other, keeping in form for so long is a dificult task, it is more easy to be in form for 4 years than for 15 to be still in the game. So to be able to get medals at three different olys is already very impressive.

    I woudn't put "similar career" for "1 gold at world more = (2 oly silver + 4 titles in Euro + 1 oly team gold) more ".

    I also woudn't put "similar career" because of the different contribution to the FS, difference in inovation, etc.

  13. #28
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    hm I'm bored this, but I'm reacting.

    1. Plushenko was almost 3 years younger than Yagudin and he could be his real contender and he could beat Yagudin in internatiponal competitions
    2. Plushenko had more 6.0s for his presenation than Yagudin.. I always laugh when people say Yagudin is more artistry http://www.kingonice.com/evgeni6-0.htm Plushy has more 6.0s than Michelle Kwan had in international cometitions!!!!
    3. Yagudin had "North-american friendly" programs, he skated in American style this is the reason why he is more popular in N-A
    4. Yagudin lived and trained in N-A he competed in professional competitons in N-A.
    5. Plushy skates in Russian style
    6. Many North-Americans don't know Plushy's all programs, but they are brave to say opinion about him and his skating...
    7. Plushy could win under the 6.0 system and under the COP. Yagudin just a 6.0 skater...
    8. Plushy was the innovator, Yagudin never did any special what was just his element....
    9. Plushenko is more popular in the world than Yagudin.. look at Plushenko's Facebook page, Twitter, official site....
    10. Plushenko's programs are more viewed on Youtube than Yagudin's.
    11. Yagudin isn't that nice guy what you think about him...He had problem with the alcohol, he is a "bitter man" who is envy of Plushenko's succes , fame, money. I can show you links but I do not want to destroy his image here...

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    I believe that is St Petersburg 300, it's a fan video to Edvin Marton's music, whom Plush often skates to, but not this time.
    This is what I'm saying...you don't know his programs..In that program Plushy landed 4T-3T-3Lo perfectly..Dick Button was amazed with him...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw
    The music wasn't Marton's music,, but the musician arranged it for Plushy's program..great music!

  15. #30
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    They're both so impressive that I can't see the point of trying to make one look better than the other. Subjectively, I preferred Yagudin and lamented his brief career; he had beautiful technique and an emotional connection to the music and to the audience that seemed completely natural and unforced. By contrast, Plushenko's more flamboyant, in-your-face approach implied that we WOULD be drawn in because he said so.

    But no one can contest Plushenko's technical quality, his masterful presence on the ice, and his competitive assurance and consistency. Some of his programs, notably Nijinsky, are among the greatest in history. Also, as some people have pointed out, Plushenko has excelled both under the 6.0 system and the CoP. There's no need to justify Plushy's position as a top skater.

    We can't know how Yagudin's career would have gone had he remained healthy, but Plushenko has demonstrated that he was capable of sustaining a high level of excellence through a long, long period of time. In that aspect, obviously Plushenko has outdone Yagudin. But that factor in itself is no indication of which skater is "better." For me (and for many others), Yagudin had qualities that Plushenko could never equal. (As other posters have remarked, I go back and re-watch Yagudin's programs often but don't watch Plushenko's very much.) But one can also argue the reverse. Remember, there are people who prefer Grishchuk/Platov over every other ice dance team of their time and people who would take one Usova/Zhulin over a thousand Grishchuk/Platovs. Different strokes for different folks.

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