Does Plushenko's longevity make him a better skater than Yagudin?
- Thread starter CarneAsada
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But I bet Yagudin couldn't do a Nijinsky program at this level either, http://youtu.be/SEJXkfMYTX4
They are all unique on their own ways.Greatest skaters of all time!
Holy mother of god that step sequence!!!
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Yags and Plush always had the same level of programs, The difference was Yags program choices were more "american" and relatable,
His body was bigger and his arms longer so he seemed more expressive and he was more traditionally handsome, So people attribute better choreography to him, But neither was a master of choreography or spins but it was enough
back then.
Plushenko dominated 2001, But i think overall the judges preferred Yagudin if the two were clean.
His body was bigger and his arms longer so he seemed more expressive and he was more traditionally handsome, So people attribute better choreography to him, But neither was a master of choreography or spins but it was enough
back then.
Plushenko dominated 2001, But i think overall the judges preferred Yagudin if the two were clean.
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Plushenko has the same amount of Olympic titles Yagudin has, Only he has 3 more Olympic medals,
As for choking, He did do that a lot, But at least managed to win 2000 Europeans and all of the 2001 competitions,
He didn't choke at the 2001-2 GPF or 1999 Worlds, Just made one small mistake which was enough at both,
Lucky for him his whole career after Yagudin showed he's the opposite of a choker
There are similiarites: each got the gold at their second oly and won a bronze at their first world.
When comparing Plush with Yag, people forget that Yagudin had 2,5 years more in age and two more years on the big competitions, he was in SLS at his second oly, using the experience of the first, while Plushenko was at his first one. He was more experienced and more mature than Plushenko.
Actually, i won't dismiss so easy two silver medals at oly, as the oly is so far away from each other, keeping in form for so long is a dificult task, it is more easy to be in form for 4 years than for 15 to be still in the game. So to be able to get medals at three different olys is already very impressive.
I woudn't put "similar career" for "1 gold at world more = (2 oly silver + 4 titles in Euro + 1 oly team gold) more ".
I also woudn't put "similar career" because of the different contribution to the FS, difference in inovation, etc.
When comparing Plush with Yag, people forget that Yagudin had 2,5 years more in age and two more years on the big competitions, he was in SLS at his second oly, using the experience of the first, while Plushenko was at his first one. He was more experienced and more mature than Plushenko.
Actually, i won't dismiss so easy two silver medals at oly, as the oly is so far away from each other, keeping in form for so long is a dificult task, it is more easy to be in form for 4 years than for 15 to be still in the game. So to be able to get medals at three different olys is already very impressive.
I woudn't put "similar career" for "1 gold at world more = (2 oly silver + 4 titles in Euro + 1 oly team gold) more ".
I also woudn't put "similar career" because of the different contribution to the FS, difference in inovation, etc.
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hm I'm bored this, but I'm reacting.
1. Plushenko was almost 3 years younger than Yagudin and he could be his real contender and he could beat Yagudin in internatiponal competitions
2. Plushenko had more 6.0s for his presenation than Yagudin.. I always laugh when people say Yagudin is more artistry http://www.kingonice.com/evgeni6-0.htm Plushy has more 6.0s than Michelle Kwan had in international cometitions!!!!
3. Yagudin had "North-american friendly" programs, he skated in American style this is the reason why he is more popular in N-A
4. Yagudin lived and trained in N-A he competed in professional competitons in N-A.
5. Plushy skates in Russian style
6. Many North-Americans don't know Plushy's all programs, but they are brave to say opinion about him and his skating...
7. Plushy could win under the 6.0 system and under the COP. Yagudin just a 6.0 skater...
8. Plushy was the innovator, Yagudin never did any special what was just his element....
9. Plushenko is more popular in the world than Yagudin.. look at Plushenko's Facebook page, Twitter, official site....
10. Plushenko's programs are more viewed on Youtube than Yagudin's.
11. Yagudin isn't that nice guy what you think about him...He had problem with the alcohol, he is a "bitter man" who is envy of Plushenko's succes , fame, money. I can show you links but I do not want to destroy his image here...
1. Plushenko was almost 3 years younger than Yagudin and he could be his real contender and he could beat Yagudin in internatiponal competitions
2. Plushenko had more 6.0s for his presenation than Yagudin.. I always laugh when people say Yagudin is more artistry http://www.kingonice.com/evgeni6-0.htm Plushy has more 6.0s than Michelle Kwan had in international cometitions!!!!
3. Yagudin had "North-american friendly" programs, he skated in American style this is the reason why he is more popular in N-A
4. Yagudin lived and trained in N-A he competed in professional competitons in N-A.
5. Plushy skates in Russian style
6. Many North-Americans don't know Plushy's all programs, but they are brave to say opinion about him and his skating...
7. Plushy could win under the 6.0 system and under the COP. Yagudin just a 6.0 skater...
8. Plushy was the innovator, Yagudin never did any special what was just his element....
9. Plushenko is more popular in the world than Yagudin.. look at Plushenko's Facebook page, Twitter, official site....
10. Plushenko's programs are more viewed on Youtube than Yagudin's.
11. Yagudin isn't that nice guy what you think about him...He had problem with the alcohol, he is a "bitter man" who is envy of Plushenko's succes , fame, money. I can show you links but I do not want to destroy his image here...
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This is what I'm saying...you don't know his programs..In that program Plushy landed 4T-3T-3Lo perfectly..Dick Button was amazed with him...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw
The music wasn't Marton's music,, but the musician arranged it for Plushy's program..great music!
They're both so impressive that I can't see the point of trying to make one look better than the other. Subjectively, I preferred Yagudin and lamented his brief career; he had beautiful technique and an emotional connection to the music and to the audience that seemed completely natural and unforced. By contrast, Plushenko's more flamboyant, in-your-face approach implied that we WOULD be drawn in because he said so.
But no one can contest Plushenko's technical quality, his masterful presence on the ice, and his competitive assurance and consistency. Some of his programs, notably Nijinsky, are among the greatest in history. Also, as some people have pointed out, Plushenko has excelled both under the 6.0 system and the CoP. There's no need to justify Plushy's position as a top skater.
We can't know how Yagudin's career would have gone had he remained healthy, but Plushenko has demonstrated that he was capable of sustaining a high level of excellence through a long, long period of time. In that aspect, obviously Plushenko has outdone Yagudin. But that factor in itself is no indication of which skater is "better." For me (and for many others), Yagudin had qualities that Plushenko could never equal. (As other posters have remarked, I go back and re-watch Yagudin's programs often but don't watch Plushenko's very much.) But one can also argue the reverse. Remember, there are people who prefer Grishchuk/Platov over every other ice dance team of their time and people who would take one Usova/Zhulin over a thousand Grishchuk/Platovs. Different strokes for different folks.
But no one can contest Plushenko's technical quality, his masterful presence on the ice, and his competitive assurance and consistency. Some of his programs, notably Nijinsky, are among the greatest in history. Also, as some people have pointed out, Plushenko has excelled both under the 6.0 system and the CoP. There's no need to justify Plushy's position as a top skater.
We can't know how Yagudin's career would have gone had he remained healthy, but Plushenko has demonstrated that he was capable of sustaining a high level of excellence through a long, long period of time. In that aspect, obviously Plushenko has outdone Yagudin. But that factor in itself is no indication of which skater is "better." For me (and for many others), Yagudin had qualities that Plushenko could never equal. (As other posters have remarked, I go back and re-watch Yagudin's programs often but don't watch Plushenko's very much.) But one can also argue the reverse. Remember, there are people who prefer Grishchuk/Platov over every other ice dance team of their time and people who would take one Usova/Zhulin over a thousand Grishchuk/Platovs. Different strokes for different folks.
I would say that when they competed against each other they were very similar in terms of talent but Yagudin may have been packaged better, especially at the Olympics in 2002. I would credit this to his move to Tarasova. Both he and Zhenya were good jumpers (a testament to Mishin) but I think Tarasova's choreography made the difference in terms of people's perception of the two. I also would characterize both as "choking under pressure" at times during their early years but growing into fierce competitors as their careers progressed. I think Plushenko had the better overall career because of his longevity at a high level but in terms of who was the better skater taking longevity and coaching out and I think you have a toss up. I do think having each other as a rival helped to significantly elevate the skating of them both however.
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About the choreography... that is very interesting Plushenko's Godfather Olympic program was very hated here, but on Youtub were many videos of it and the people adored the program..The Godfather was more popular like Yagudin's Olympic program Man in the Iron mask..(Some weeks ago all versions of Godfather were blocked by the IOC!!!!!! 8 years after Turin!!)
Personally I liked most of Plushenko's programs better than Yagudin's, and The Godfather was one of my favorite programs of his, but I think in general in North America at least, Yagudin was taught to have the better choreography even though I (and you also I'm guessing) do not agree.
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I agree.. this is what I'm saying Yagudin skated in American style..
Can you imagine Yagudin can skate like this????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vHflKsyU0
and Plushy was only 16!!!
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So cute! What made the innocent boy became the men he is today?Can you imagine Yagudin can skate like this????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vHflKsyU0
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So cute! What made the innocent boy became the men he is today?
You don't start this... I will bring the links with Yagudin..and you can ask what made the good man became man he is today? But I'm not volk....
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11. Yagudin isn't that nice guy what you think about him...He had problem with the alcohol, he is a "bitter man" who is envy of Plushenko's succes , fame, money. I can show you links but I do not want to destroy his image here...
100% fact :thumbsup:
I agree with whole post apart that outside Winter and Lawrence, i don't go to see Yagudin programs, while i search often for Plush programs
.And i liked Usova /Zhulin much more than Grishchuk / Platov
I don't know enough to make any character evaluations of either man, but when alcohol enters the picture, it can eat a person alive, and it's always heartbreaking to contemplate. There's a reason the old temperance activists of the Victorian era used to call it "demon rum." If Plushenko has not taken that road, that is indeed one aspect in which he has outdone his old rival Yagudin, and I'm grateful to know it.
I agree.. this is what I'm saying Yagudin skated in American style..
Can you imagine Yagudin can skate like this????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vHflKsyU0
That was something Plush had and Yagudin didn't : (self)irony. This is one ingredient which i absolutly love in Plushenko's programs and make me look his progrmas over and over.
Yagudin was a very serious skater, hard working type, who can move the mountains if he wants to, like a titan. You can really feel the power when watching his programs. His try to show comedy / irony on ice were not really good (One banana anyone?).
While Plushenko showed joy and easiness, as if he will move the mountains with a snipet of his fingers if he will bother . Theater, drama, fireworks.
Actually more their character was different than anything else.
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