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Thread: Does Plushenko's longevity make him a better skater than Yagudin?

  1. #31
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    I would say that when they competed against each other they were very similar in terms of talent but Yagudin may have been packaged better, especially at the Olympics in 2002. I would credit this to his move to Tarasova. Both he and Zhenya were good jumpers (a testament to Mishin) but I think Tarasova's choreography made the difference in terms of people's perception of the two. I also would characterize both as "choking under pressure" at times during their early years but growing into fierce competitors as their careers progressed. I think Plushenko had the better overall career because of his longevity at a high level but in terms of who was the better skater taking longevity and coaching out and I think you have a toss up. I do think having each other as a rival helped to significantly elevate the skating of them both however.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risa View Post
    I would say that when they competed against each other they were very similar in terms of talent but Yagudin may have been packaged better, especially at the Olympics in 2002. I would credit this to his move to Tarasova. Both he and Zhenya were good jumpers (a testament to Mishin) but I think Tarasova's choreography made the difference in terms of people's perception of the two. I also would characterize both as "choking under pressure" at times during their early years but growing into fierce competitors as their careers progressed. I think Plushenko had the better overall career because of his longevity at a high level but in terms of who was the better skater taking longevity and coaching out and I think you have a toss up. I do think having each other as a rival helped to significantly elevate the skating of them both however.
    About the choreography... that is very interesting Plushenko's Godfather Olympic program was very hated here, but on Youtub were many videos of it and the people adored the program..The Godfather was more popular like Yagudin's Olympic program Man in the Iron mask..(Some weeks ago all versions of Godfather were blocked by the IOC!!!!!! 8 years after Turin!!)

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    About the choreography... that is very interesting Plushenko's Godfather Olympic program was very hated here, but on Youtub were many videos of it and the people adored the program..The Godfather was more popular like Yagudin's Olympic program Man in the Iron mask..(Some weeks ago all versions of Godfather were blocked by the IOC!!!!!! 8 years after Turin!!)
    Personally I liked most of Plushenko's programs better than Yagudin's, and The Godfather was one of my favorite programs of his, but I think in general in North America at least, Yagudin was taught to have the better choreography even though I (and you also I'm guessing) do not agree.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risa View Post
    Personally I liked most of Plushenko's programs better than Yagudin's, and The Godfather was one of my favorite programs of his, but I think in general in North America at least, Yagudin was taught to have the better choreography even though I (and you also I'm guessing) do not agree.
    I agree.. this is what I'm saying Yagudin skated in American style..

    Can you imagine Yagudin can skate like this????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vHflKsyU0 and Plushy was only 16!!!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Can you imagine Yagudin can skate like this????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vHflKsyU0 and Plushy was only 16!!!
    So cute! What made the innocent boy became the men he is today?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    So cute! What made the innocent boy became the men he is today?
    You don't start this... I will bring the links with Yagudin..and you can ask what made the good man became man he is today?

    But I'm not volk....

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    11. Yagudin isn't that nice guy what you think about him...He had problem with the alcohol, he is a "bitter man" who is envy of Plushenko's succes , fame, money. I can show you links but I do not want to destroy his image here...
    100% fact

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    They're both so impressive that I can't see the point of trying to make one look better than the other. Subjectively, I preferred Yagudin and lamented his brief career; he had beautiful technique and an emotional connection to the music and to the audience that seemed completely natural and unforced. By contrast, Plushenko's more flamboyant, in-your-face approach implied that we WOULD be drawn in because he said so.

    But no one can contest Plushenko's technical quality, his masterful presence on the ice, and his competitive assurance and consistency. Some of his programs, notably Nijinsky, are among the greatest in history. Also, as some people have pointed out, Plushenko has excelled both under the 6.0 system and the CoP. There's no need to justify Plushy's position as a top skater.

    We can't know how Yagudin's career would have gone had he remained healthy, but Plushenko has demonstrated that he was capable of sustaining a high level of excellence through a long, long period of time. In that aspect, obviously Plushenko has outdone Yagudin. But that factor in itself is no indication of which skater is "better." For me (and for many others), Yagudin had qualities that Plushenko could never equal. (As other posters have remarked, I go back and re-watch Yagudin's programs often but don't watch Plushenko's very much.) But one can also argue the reverse. Remember, there are people who prefer Grishchuk/Platov over every other ice dance team of their time and people who would take one Usova/Zhulin over a thousand Grishchuk/Platovs. Different strokes for different folks.
    I agree with whole post apart that outside Winter and Lawrence, i don't go to see Yagudin programs, while i search often for Plush programs .

    And i liked Usova /Zhulin much more than Grishchuk / Platov

  9. #39
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    I don't know enough to make any character evaluations of either man, but when alcohol enters the picture, it can eat a person alive, and it's always heartbreaking to contemplate. There's a reason the old temperance activists of the Victorian era used to call it "demon rum." If Plushenko has not taken that road, that is indeed one aspect in which he has outdone his old rival Yagudin, and I'm grateful to know it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I agree.. this is what I'm saying Yagudin skated in American style..

    Can you imagine Yagudin can skate like this????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vHflKsyU0 and Plushy was only 16!!!
    That was something Plush had and Yagudin didn't : (self)irony. This is one ingredient which i absolutly love in Plushenko's programs and make me look his progrmas over and over.

    Yagudin was a very serious skater, hard working type, who can move the mountains if he wants to, like a titan. You can really feel the power when watching his programs. His try to show comedy / irony on ice were not really good (One banana anyone?).
    While Plushenko showed joy and easiness, as if he will move the mountains with a snipet of his fingers if he will bother . Theater, drama, fireworks.

    Actually more their character was different than anything else.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I don't know enough to make any character evaluations of either man, but when alcohol enters the picture, it can eat a person alive, and it's always heartbreaking to contemplate. There's a reason the old temperance activists of the Victorian era used to call it "demon rum." If Plushenko has not taken that road, that is indeed one aspect in which he has outdone his old rival Yagudin, and I'm grateful to know it.
    I really hope is just a rumour or not a serious problem. Outside the DUI for Yagudin when he was in USA, I have never heard about him having such problems.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by aschiutza View Post
    That was something Plush had and Yagudin didn't : (self)irony. This is one ingredient which i absolutly love in Plushenko's programs and make me look his progrmas over and over.

    Yagudin was a very serious skater, hard working type, who can move the mountains if he wants to, like a titan. You can really feel the power when watching his programs. His try to show comedy / irony on ice were not really good (One banana anyone?).
    While Plushenko showed joy and easiness, as if he will move the mountains with a snipet of his fingers if he will bother . Theater, drama, fireworks.

    Actually more their character was different than anything else.
    Perfect summary...Thank you.."Theater, drama, fireworks" so true..this program in 2010 Tango Amore..this was also hated here..Listen to the chinese audience..Plushy took them crazy with the "bad" program https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5lAZtvnkak
    he is unique on ice..no one comes close to him..

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aschiutza View Post
    I really hope is just a rumour or not a serious problem. Outside the DUI for Yagudin when he was in USA, I have never heard about him having such problems.
    He had this problem, you believe me. But he is over this problem, his beautiful daughter helped him, I think... I would not mention it but I'm so angry when the members are always bashing Plushy for everything. Read some previous posts in this thread...and don't know anything about Yagudin's dark side and he is the nicest guy..excuse me...

  14. #44
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    Well, IMO both Yagudin and Plush are unique. How great that they skated the same period! THAT was a great time to watch male skating, regardless which of them two was winning

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    He had this problem, you believe me. But he is over this problem, his beautiful daughter helped him, I think... I would not mention it but I'm so angry when the members are always bashing Plushy for everything. Read some previous posts in this thread...and don't know anything about Yagudin's dark side and he is the nicest guy..excuse me...
    This is then great to hear! Alcohol is a bad thing not only for an athlete but also for a family man.

    (I have some things that i don't like at Yagudin, but as they are not directly related with him on the ice, i prefer to don't talk about. At the end of the day i don't know him personaly. I prefer to keep him in my memory for what beauty he brought on the ice and to don't search further or read his interviews.)

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