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Thread: Russian Nationals podium

  1. #166
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    I'm with you, Karne. I think the move shakes up Kovtun more than Artur. "Kovtun's jumps are unsustainable in the long term" is probably too exaggerated/negative. TAT either wants to hog all the good skaters in her group, or she's... deliberately trying to sabotage Artur so that he won't be a threat?! (I really hope it's not the latter...) Either way, that means TAT doesn't see Artur as a total has-been/non-threat.

    I'd be more worried about how TAT can manage her time between Artur and Kovtun, rather than Mishin managing his group. And they better make that Hollywood movie about the Yags-Plush rivalry soon.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I find it definitely intriguing that in spite of Kovtun being the new "Golden Boy", Tarasova felt inclined to pick up another elite man - and one capable of beating Kovtun, at that. What does this mean? Does she know that Kovtun's jumps are unsustainable in the long term? Does she see greater potential in Artur than she does in Kovtun?
    So far it's been proven that Arthur's jumps are unsustainable. Hopefully, he can get them back. I believe he haven't seen the best technical side of Kovtun yet.

  3. #168
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    As Orser has shown, having two elite students that can potentially beat each other pushes them. Tarasova for all we know might be doing this to bring out the best in Gachinski as well as ensure Kovtun stays driven. I wonder if one factor in Hanyu insisting on keeping the 4S was continually seeing Fernandez land them.

  4. #169
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    In that case, I want one of them (Hanyu or Javi) to find a new coach. Can't stand the choreographed fall!

    I hope CSG is right and that's why TAT is doing this. I shall await how this saga of the King, the Prince, and the Usurper plays out.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    So far it's been proven that Arthur's jumps are unsustainable. Hopefully, he can get them back. I believe he haven't seen the best technical side of Kovtun yet.
    Artur has a good basic technique, though, and his jumps are stunning - and even at his worst (with the growth spurt and resultant back injury) his jumps didn't completely go to pot. Kovtun's horrendous hunched-over jumps won't last forever, and I hope he manages a technique rework before he gets seriously injured.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Tarasova for all we know might be doing this to bring out the best in Gachinski as well as ensure Kovtun stays driven.
    Maybe it will be easier for Artur sharing the ice with Kovtun, who is his junior and who he has beaten before, than sharing it with Plushenko, who was the one he grew up watching on TV and who Artur beat only once, by a few tenths of a point, in one program...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I hope CSG is right and that's why TAT is doing this. I shall await how this saga of the King, the Prince, and the Usurper plays out.
    Well, we all know who the King is and shall be forever. But I am curious to know which you have cast as the Prince, and which as the Usurper. I know which way around I have cast them...

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Well, we all know who the King is and shall be forever. But I am curious to know which you have cast as the Prince, and which as the Usurper. I know which way around I have cast them...
    I like Gachinski very much, and even though I couldn't like Kovtun I don't hate him.

    Yes they have talents and they could do big. But I couldn't think of their future as anywhere better than Plushenko's history though. Plushy is and shall be the only king. Somehow I have to say it's the "it factor"/charisma. What Plushy has, no one else has. They can be great, but never be great as Plushy.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    I like Gachinski very much, and even though I couldn't like Kovtun I don't hate him.

    Yes they have talents and they could do big. But I couldn't think of their future as anywhere better than Plushenko though. Plushy is and shall be the only king. Somehow I have to say it's the "it factor"/charisma. What Plushy has, no one else has. They can be great, but never be great as Plushy.
    Well, hardly anyone can achieve the level of success Plushy has had, and under the current system it will be epicly difficult for any skater to achieve clean programs with multiple quads consistently. But it's only Kovtun's second season, and under a completely different set of rules and demands, but so far he's on the right track. His best is certainly better than any of the other Russian men's best at this point, and that's coming from someone who actually likes Voronov more than Kovtun, because I feel for him having been pretty consistent past season and still got screwed.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Well, hardly anyone can achieve the level of success Plushy has had, and under the current system it will be epicly difficult for any skater to achieve clean programs with multiple quads consistently. But it's only Kovtun's second season, and under a completely different set of rules and demands, but so far he's on the right track. His best is certainly better than any of the other Russian men's best at this point, and that's coming from someone who actually likes Voronov more than Kovtun, because I feel for him having been pretty consistent past season and still got screwed.
    I don't write them off, they are young and they have good future with TAT. But it's obviously you can't archive the same amount of medals that Plushy have.

  9. #174
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    Well, no one thought anyone could medal in four Olympics in the current world of quadruple jumps... until someone did.

    @karne
    I think it's pretty obvious who is the rightful heir, but I'll leave it to the imaginations of every poster... I'm here for a popcorn show, not a flame war.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Well, no one thought anyone could medal in four Olympics in the current world of quadruple jumps... until someone did.
    @karne
    I think it's pretty obvious who is the rightful heir, but I'll leave it to the imaginations of every poster... I'm here for a popcorn show, not a flame war.
    That is what I am here, too. Where's the drama button?

    Last but not least: Viva Plushy whether you retire or come back!

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    With Plushenko back, Mishin won't be spending enough time coaching him.
    Do you know Plushenko is training on ice just 1.5 hours/ day?

    Rafael Arutunian about Plushy: http://www.sport-express.ru/olympic1...reviews/40863/ translating: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...new-level-quot

    Plushenko is on new level
    ...

    RA: He is certainly no worse than he was in Vancouver or Torino. I would say it's a different quality. During the first two Olympics he was an ordinary athlete. I wouldn't call him a professional even though he won in Torino. Back then he was very consistent and could win even in a so so shape he was back then. Now it's a true professional.

    EV: Was it different I don't think he would stay in figure skating for so long
    RA: Exactly! He understands what is he doing and why. It's a rare in the sport. Though taking the current competition he might end up being far from the podium.

    EV: I personally would love to see him competing in the personal event. Though agree, it's quite a risk.
    RA: It's all about what does Pluschenko himself want. You saw how on the first day of the team event Jeremy Abbott was skating right after Pluschenko. He completely fell apart! For many skaters Pluschenko is a threat just by showing up in the competition. Perhaps it's a feeling he enjoys even more than the actual competition? If I were Pluschenko's coach I would ask him `What do you want?' and accept any decision.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    You saw how on the first day of the team event Jeremy Abbott was skating right after Pluschenko. He completely fell apart!
    While I generally agree with this sentiment - that Plushenko intimidates other skaters and can make them more nervous simply by his presence - Jeremy is not exactly a good example. Jeremy's fallen apart skating after a LOT of skaters.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    While I generally agree with this sentiment - that Plushenko intimidates other skaters and can make them more nervous simply by his presence - Jeremy is not exactly a good example. Jeremy's fallen apart skating after a LOT of skaters.
    Poor Jeremy! But it's true.

  14. #179
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    What about Chan and his mistakes? Though Chan is also naturally inconsistent. Better example is Euros 2012. For all the talk of Artur headcasing, he was the only one who held it together. On reason why I don't think Artur is Jeremy. I suspect injuries and weird stuff happened to him and changed him.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    What about Chan and his mistakes? Though Chan is also naturally inconsistent. Better example is Euros 2012. For all the talk of Artur headcasing, he was the only one who held it together. On reason why I don't think Artur is Jeremy. I suspect injuries and weird stuff happened to him and changed him.
    Chan, even with his errors, is actually one of the more consistent skaters in the past quadrennial (certainly one of the most, if not the most, consistent quad-jumpers), but under CoP demands he's been prone to silly errors (as most other skaters have been). You'll hardly find any skater under IJS who has had 3 clean SP+LP competitions with all planned content. Hanyu has yet to do this himself and he's the best skater out there right now. If you look at post-introduction of CoP, Plushenko himself has made way more errors including leaving out jumps and doubling jumps, but has a way more consistent axel than Chan and that has been the difference in terms of Plushenko being way above his competitors (who themselves couldn't execute quads or even axels consistently). CoP programs have a lot for a skater to keep track of, because they can't exactly "think" between their elements and take breaks, and have to perform the whole time. The "breather" you usually see in 6.0 programs is much shorter or non-existent in CoP programs, especially for ambitiously choreographed programs like Chan's.

    Artur's Euros 2012 was a huge success and on some level I think with 3 quads to Plushenko's 1 quad over the course of the competition, he might have deserved the title more, but obviously his artistic inferiority held him back (Plu delivered two clean programs after all, and Gachinski was above him in the SP as it should have been). Unfortunately, Gachinski has kind of been like a Denis Ten in that he's only really had two strong major international competitions -- Ten being fortunate to have his 2 overwhelmingly best competitions at Worlds and the Olympics.

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