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Thread: Identification of Jumps?

  1. #16
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    For loop the legs are usually crossed before take off
    Salchow the skaters are kind of bow legged before take off
    Axel is a forward take off
    Toe loop you pick into the ice with your left foot, for Flip and Lutz, they pick with the right foot and then I look at the edge before take off, Flip is inside edge, Lutz is outside edge (If the Flip has a wrong edge it is a Lip, if the Lutz has a wrong edge it's a Flutz)
    For combinations, the second jump is a toe loop if they pick the ice, if they don't then it's a loop

    Here's an excellent gif guide I found on tumblr
    http://eggplantgifs.tumblr.com/post/...jumps-guide-to
    And here's one for combinations
    http://eggplantgifs.tumblr.com/post/...-triple-triple

    Both have good explanations so I suggest you take a look

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I would say the other way around... a toe loop skaters tend to vault off the toe a lot more apparently than a flip (where the picking foot crosses behind the other foot sooner).
    I think I was confusing the picking foot with the other foot that comes forward during the setup..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F68ZUxutKE8#t=5m50s (slow mo replay at 5:50 of Kwan's 3t-3t)
    Notice how in the setup, she swings her right foot forward first for a 3turn..but as you guys said, the 3t actually picks off with the left foot..but because of the right foot swinging forward before that it confused me thinking it was the picking foot

  3. #18
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    How do some skaters both lip and flutz if they are obviously capable of taking off on either edge?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointyourtoe View Post
    How do some skaters both lip and flutz if they are obviously capable of taking off on either edge?
    Some skaters rock on their edges on the lutz take-off, like some of the Russian girls who flutz. It's supposed to help get them on the outside edge just before take off although skaters who do it usually still end up flutzing. It does help to disguise it better. I assume that unstable wobbly edge technique carries over the the flip. Either that or it just reflects poor edge control in general.

  5. #20
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    What I don't understand is, if you want to do a Lutz and you change the edge from outside to inside, that is called Flutz, but that is actually a correct Flip. The same goes for wrong edge Flip, which should count as a Lutz. Are other real differences between the 2 jumps? As far as I know it is all about the inside/outside edge. Why there is a deduction for the edge?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
    What I don't understand is, if you want to do a Lutz and you change the edge from outside to inside, that is called Flutz, but that is actually a correct Flip. The same goes for wrong edge Flip, which should count as a Lutz. Are other real differences between the 2 jumps? As far as I know it is all about the inside/outside edge. Why there is a deduction for the edge?
    I'm guessing a partial answer is that the body positions (not just the edge) are different, in terms of approach and take off.

    However, something else to consider is that you're only allowed to do 2 of each jump. So if they're really the same, then in a way, skaters who flutz (or lip) are somewhat bending the rules a bit -- in that they get to do more than 2 flips, but just that in terms of points some become lutz-with-wrong-edge instead of 0 points (for 3rd of same jump).

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
    What I don't understand is, if you want to do a Lutz and you change the edge from outside to inside, that is called Flutz, but that is actually a correct Flip. The same goes for wrong edge Flip, which should count as a Lutz. Are other real differences between the 2 jumps?
    Usually yes.

    Sticking with counterclockwise jumps, a lutz is usually approached on a clockwise curve and the upper body is counterrotated toward outside the circle while the skater is reaching the free foot back to pick -- a flutz happens when the skater reverses that counterrotation a little too soon before taking off rather than right at the takeoff.

    With a true flip, there's never any counterrotation -- the skater is traveling counterclockwise the whole time.

    With a "lip," the final edge before the takeoff would be checked too hard. In general the takeoff edge for a flip should be a fairly straight back inside edge, not a deep curve, but if the skater tries too hard to keep it straight s/he might pull all the way over onto the incorrect outside edge instead.

    For the counterclockwise skater, usually there is at least one counterclockwise turn (three or mohawk) before picking. With a lutz, there may be clockwise turns or there may just be a long left back outside (clockwise) edge before picking.

    I.e., almost always it's pretty clear which jump the skater was trying to do, and whether it rocked onto the wrong edge at the last second.

    However, it can get tricky if there are quick steps leading into the jump so it's not clear exactly what the last step or turn was intending to be, what edge the skater intended to be on.

  8. #23
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    Thank you for your explanation. It makes sense for me, as the easiest jumps for me to recognize are the Lutz and the Axel. I also tend to recognize the Loop and Flip. The worst case for me is the Salcow. Touloup is also kind of foggy. I know the theory, the rotations before take off, the edge/toe, but still I have problems.

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