Lillehamer Revisited | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Lillehamer Revisited

LyraAngelica

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Kerrigan did one triple lutz and doubled her flip. Also, she seemed to get super excited before her program ended and had a scratchy 2A.

At the time, I thought Kerrigan had been completely robbed, but in retrospect, I can see what a leg up Oksana had in artistry, and I'd be ok with either of them winning. Had Kerrigan not doubled her flip or had she not had such a bizarre program, I think she would've deserved the win hands down.

I was torn because I liked them both but I felt Nancy had cleaner jumps even though she doubled the flip.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Lillehammer Revisited
I was in Lillehammer working for TV and watched every single practice as well as the final performances. T&D were very slow in the CDs and made technical errors in those performances. Their OD was wonderful. In practices for the FD they were totally choreographing it “on the fly” because they were upset at losing the FD at Euros (even though they won overall). After getting feedback from Euros, they began inserting moves taken from previous programs, to the point that I (and probably most of the judges) recognized the FD as a rehash of some of their older winning programs - “the best of T&D” instead of new innovative choreo for which they were renowned – and they were very slow compared to Grishuk & Platov.

As far as Mishkutenok & Dmitriev, their practices were frightful, never a clean run-through. I am sure Scott Hamilton saw some of that as well as I did. However on the night of the performances, they were solid. I asked coach Moskvina what she said to them to make such a difference, she laughed and said she sprinkled magic dust on them before their performance. But I believe that M&D didn’t win overall because the judges watched some of their practices and decided right then and there that the gold would not be theirs, especially since Gordeeva & Grinkov had solid practices every day – unfortunately not in the final FS performance.
 

Rossig

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
After getting feedback from Euros, they began inserting moves taken from previous programs, to the point that I (and probably most of the judges) recognized the FD as a rehash of some of their older winning programs - “the best of T&D” instead of new innovative choreo for which they were renowned

The judges should have compared their dance to other teams' programmes, and not their previous dances. It happens in FS that skaters return with even almost the same programmes as in other seasons and still they are not punished for that.

In practices for the FD they were totally choreographing it “on the fly” because they were upset at losing the FD at Euros (even though they won overall).
So maybe judges marked them for their practices, just like you've wrtitten, it happened to M&D (which I also heard).
 

skatefan17

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Oksana's Lillihamer SP is probably my all-time favorite SP. Her body, face, and movement capture every mood of the music. She was the best spinner of the top ladies (excluding the Swiss girls) and she had some neat tricks in that program, including the entrance to the 2A. For those who haven't seen it, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g

This did not touch me at all.... and I remember the mini controversy around that time. I am glad she won, but today's skaters are miles above this program.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Lillehammer Revisited
I was in Lillehammer working for TV and watched every single practice as well as the final performances. T&D were very slow in the CDs and made technical errors in those performances. Their OD was wonderful. In practices for the FD they were totally choreographing it “on the fly” because they were upset at losing the FD at Euros (even though they won overall). After getting feedback from Euros, they began inserting moves taken from previous programs, to the point that I (and probably most of the judges) recognized the FD as a rehash of some of their older winning programs - “the best of T&D” instead of new innovative choreo for which they were renowned – and they were very slow compared to Grishuk & Platov.

As far as Mishkutenok & Dmitriev, their practices were frightful, never a clean run-through. I am sure Scott Hamilton saw some of that as well as I did. However on the night of the performances, they were solid. I asked coach Moskvina what she said to them to make such a difference, she laughed and said she sprinkled magic dust on them before their performance. But I believe that M&D didn’t win overall because the judges watched some of their practices and decided right then and there that the gold would not be theirs, especially since Gordeeva & Grinkov had solid practices every day – unfortunately not in the final FS performance.

Oh please tell us more real stories!!!! :love::love:

Some judges don't even go to practices. Didn't John Curry even say that some judges don't even watch the competitions:laugh:
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Kerrigan did one triple lutz and doubled her flip. Also, she seemed to get super excited before her program ended and had a scratchy 2A.

At the time, I thought Kerrigan had been completely robbed, but in retrospect, I can see what a leg up Oksana had in artistry, and I'd be ok with either of them winning. Had Kerrigan not doubled her flip or had she not had such a bizarre program, I think she would've deserved the win hands down.


My bad. I didn't bother re-watching that horrifying muzak program. I mean, who would want to :laugh:

Well... I still think that while Oksana's style and artistry is pretty much universally preferred over everyone else in that event, she didn't have enough technical content to merit the gold. Of course, her artistry is one of the best ever, right up there with Lynn, even though Baiul didn't go as far as she could have developed. I really liked some of her pro programs in the late 90s but some of her later show programs were utter crap.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
This did not touch me at all.... and I remember the mini controversy around that time. I am glad she won, but today's skaters are miles above this program.

Why do people always say that today's skaters are "better" - today's skaters were inspired by past skater's who provided the foundation for them to emulate.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Oksana's Lillihamer SP is probably my all-time favorite SP. Her body, face, and movement capture every mood of the music. She was the best spinner of the top ladies (excluding the Swiss girls) and she had some neat tricks in that program, including the entrance to the 2A. For those who haven't seen it, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g

Oksana Baiul had brilliant SPs when she was actually forced to do stuff like actual technical elements in the SP. IMO, her Barcelona Nights SP from the year before is even more magical than her Black Swan:

http://youtu.be/9PQBBXDId-g

Like others on this thread, I love watching Baiul skate but her cheesy, technically-underwhelming LP in Lillehammer was horrendously overscored and did not deserve the OGM.
 

anyanka

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
I have fond memories of 1994. It wasn't just the Tonya / Nancy drama, it was also the dance-off in the FD, the entire men's event (Kurt's blow-up and redemption a la Mao Asada), and the magical pairs final flight. Hated Scott's commentary but the top 4 pairs were all at the top of their game.
 

karlowens2

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Well, being (probably) one of the younger FS fans, I didn't get to see the events unfold as they happened. Looking back on skates... (Hoping to provide an "outsider" perspective without emotions from the time, but maybe I'm just uninformed).


Ladies: I think Baiul was the right choice. Just like there should be a minimal technical standard for a champion... there should be a minimum artistic standard as well. Kerrigan's skate, imo, worse than watching paint dry. Baiul, even with the mistakes, brought a crazy amount of star power. And she sold the hell out of her program, even if it was showtunes (alright, in a cheesy way, I kinda enjoy showtunes. And the music was certainly no worse than Kerrigan's). Since the artistic mark is the tiebreaker, I think a 5.8/5.8 vs. 5.7/5.9 scoring would've been fair, giving Baiul the win. That being said, I can see why other people would think Kerrigan was robbed. It is a sport, after all, and even though I found Kerrigan's skate one of the least artistic things I've ever seen, she did land the jumps.

.

I disagree that Nancy was boring, non-artistic, etc. Nancy had grace and strength. Her programs were related more to modern dance than ballet. Her moves were timed to the music and some were unique. Most of the skaters today are baseing their programs on ballet - the willowy arms and delicate hand movements. Not all women relate to this feminine style and I wonder what happens to those skaters. I wish more women would take up the more modern style Nancy chose. I found it strong and beautiful. As far as Oksana - I didn´t like her skating - her appealing to the audience loked cheesy to me. But, we all have our separate opinions.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Nancy had some artistry in her skating but her 94 LP sure as heck didnt have any. What a travesty that junk program was. She even started bunny hopping around at one point, ugh. Had she skated any of her previous long programs as well as she did that one, she would have won for sure that night.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
M/D should have won. Those two programs were everything. From concepts to executions. Their performances stand the test of time. Would be competitive even by the standard today.

When was the last time anyone's ever seen a pair team put together amazing SP and LP? Choreographically, that was the peak of pair skating. You can compare the programs by the medalists this year to M/D's SP and LP and see how innovative and passionate M/D were.
 

Sk8Boi

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Oh please tell us more real stories!!!! :love::love:

Some judges don't even go to practices. Didn't John Curry even say that some judges don't even watch the competitions:laugh:

This is a TRUE story of which I have VIDEO evidence ....

I competed in Ann Arbor, MI in singles competition and bought the video of the entire competition of 15 skaters. The judges were on an elevated platform placed in the penalty box, and they are visible in the video for 90% of the program.

One judge - Ms. Ida Takeoka - Judge #4 was ASLEEP during my program. Totally asleep and awakened for her marks by the judge next to her. For some reason, her scores were in line with my other scores and placements.

She is MAGIC! Judging with eyes closed, fast asleep......
 

SkateToronto

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 13, 2014
I remember being pretty happy with all the winners - except I was sorely disappointed that Kurt Browning fell apart. I'd wanted him to win so badly.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
This is a TRUE story of which I have VIDEO evidence ....

I competed in Ann Arbor, MI in singles competition and bought the video of the entire competition of 15 skaters. The judges were on an elevated platform placed in the penalty box, and they are visible in the video for 90% of the program.

One judge - Ms. Ida Takeoka - Judge #4 was ASLEEP during my program. Totally asleep and awakened for her marks by the judge next to her. For some reason, her scores were in line with my other scores and placements.

She is MAGIC! Judging with eyes closed, fast asleep......

Thank you for your story, Sk8Boi! I love real life stories, since unfortunately most of us on these forums can only speculate. It must have hurt that she slept through your performance? I would have been fuming! (No Fumie puns intended)

FYI this John Curry's interview regarding his views judging. Sad that not much has changed in 40 years. Skip to Minute 4 or so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv9M3rsDchU

This interview showed a man who was not only balletic perfection incarnate but also revolutionized skating. He said he won the OGM so he could bring theater and ballet to the ice. OGM was a means to an end, not the end itself for Curry. He seemed to be introverted and tortured, yet he was a skating genius. He had vision for what he wanted to accomplish and the intelligence to strategize to get what he wanted. While many skaters today are great skaters, I doubt they're as effective as strategists the way Curry was.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
There are two negative things from 1994 that stick to my memory:
- anger at Tonya for screwing up my all time fave Josee.
- my pure contempt and disgust at Urmanov's white lace gloves.

The rest gives me rather positive feelings. G/G vs M/D was 50-50, so whatever the outcome it would be the same emotions. B/E were without any chances.
I didn't care much about dance, and I was really inspired by Oksana's win. I was so hoping she would be continuing her career, possibly becoming the best in history. Unfortunately it didn't happen.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Oh please tell us more real stories!!!! :love::love:

Some judges don't even go to practices. Didn't John Curry even say that some judges don't even watch the competitions:laugh:

Some judges like to watch practices, some don't, but for some, poor practices could cement a judge's opinion of a skater's program/ability. I had to report on (mostly of the top skaters/teams) who did solid practices, and those who had difficulties, and I also had to do the "jump" sheets - now called "element sheets." Currently skaters/teams or their coaches send in element sheets to the ISU ahead of time.
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
There are two negative things from 1994 that stick to my memory:
- anger at Tonya for screwing up my all time fave Josee.
- my pure contempt and disgust at Urmanov's white lace gloves.

The rest gives me rather positive feelings. G/G vs M/D was 50-50, so whatever the outcome it would be the same emotions. B/E were without any chances.
I didn't care much about dance, and I was really inspired by Oksana's win. I was so hoping she would be continuing her career, possibly becoming the best in history. Unfortunately it didn't happen.

First, sincere apologies for jumping on you yesterday re: "elitism" in another thread. I should have given more thought to my post.

What we can agree on, though, is those gloves of Urmanov's -- they totally turned me off, too! :laugh:
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
First, sincere apologies for jumping on you yesterday re: "elitism" in another thread. I should have given more thought to my post.

What we can agree on, though, is those gloves of Urmanov's -- they totally turned me off, too! :laugh:

Oh, I didn't even notice anybody "jumping" at me. I think the conversation was perfectly fine! :)

Coming back to 1994: didn't Urmanov date Mishkutenok back then? I heard something like that, but I am not sure it's true. If so, it will add salt to injury: stealing the most gorgeous woman who ever appeared in figure skating! :)
Natalia lives in Colorado now and is really really not married to Urmanov! Actually, it's interesting. I remember an interview with Natalia back then when she could not articulate a single word in English. And now she landed in Colorado. I wish to go there and maybe ask for a photo with an autograph. It's just two states away... :)

OK, to be completely honest, if you take away the lace Alexei had a potential to be good looking. But that lace!


P.S. I was wrong. Natalia currently lives in Texas. But I was right about Colorado too, because she lived there before Texas.
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
Oh, I didn't even notice anybody "jumping" at me. I think the conversation was perfectly fine! :)

Coming back to 1994: didn't Urmanov date Mishkutenok back then? I heard something like that, but I am not sure it's true. If so, it will add salt to injury: stealing the most gorgeous woman who ever appeared in figure skating! :)
Natalia lives in Colorado now and is really really not married to Urmanov! Actually, it's interesting. I remember an interview with Natalia back then when she could not articulate a single word in English. And now she landed in Colorado. I wish to go there and maybe ask for a photo with an autograph. It's just two states away... :)

OK, to be completely honest, if you take away the lace Alexei had a potential to be good looking. But that lace!


P.S. I was wrong. She currently lives in Texas. But I was right about Colorado too, because she lived there before Texas.


Not sure that I'd call Natalia the most beautiful, but she's definitely up there near the top. I had no idea that she & Alexei had been an item; also didn't know she was living in the US. In terms of looks during that era, my pick would be Usova & Zhulin -- I thought both of them were just drop-dead gorgeous. Sadly, he hasn't aged well. As for all that partner-swapping and his affairs... :rolleye:

Someone once commented to me about Alexei's looks and said he was serious eye candy. Not to me, but maybe it was his costumes, most of which always looked incredibly tacky to me. But those darn gloves were the worst. Yikes!
 
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