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Thread: Lillehamer Revisited

  1. #16
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    G&P's free dance was probably their easiest ever. They hard harder FDs even in 91, 92, and 93, but were Russian #2 or #3 (usually #3) so didnt get the marks they deserved at times. Now with K&P retired and U&Z CLEARLY out of favor behind the scenes within Russia especialy for some reason, G&P received #1 treatment in 94 and got inflated marks for an easy, sloppy program.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Ladies- How could Baiul have won the gold in the short program when she didnt even win the short program. Her short program was a masterpiece but she badly two footed the triple lutz combo and only had two 1st place votes and two 3rd place votes (she also had two 3rd place votes in the long incidentally). I dont think either Kerrigan or Baiul had the best LP. Chen and Sato were both better in that phase. Both had messed up the short so I have no idea of the final results.
    I think her SP and the biggest ovation of the evening put a little birdy into the judges' minds that Baiul is the star of the event. Baiul created an aura and excitement in that SP, where the audience sensed that they were seeing GREATNESS. I can see how a judge could see Baiul as so advanced from a performance point of view that the thought of stiff, robotic and seemingly snide Nancy taking the gold sounds like the 3rd circle in Dante's Inferno to them. Mary Scotvold is capable of great programs, Paul Wylie for instance (though it might have just been Paul...), but those programs of Nancy's were just awful. Maybe that's all she was capable of. I thought the previous year's Beauty and the Beast was nice, but Nancy apparently couldn't handle choreography and landing her jumps. I still think that after the SP the judges knew who was going to win. You couldn't deny Baiul's ability.

  3. #18
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    That was the first year I took an interest in skating, I guess all of the drama surrounding US Nationals drew my attention in. Now that I'm I know a lot more about the sport, it was fun to go back and watch. I'll only offer my opinion on the ladies. I think the results were fair. Oksana just had the "it" factor and though there were a few errors, her ability was clear. Nancy just seemed robotic. And Lu Chen was magical, she just really has something that draws an audience in.

  4. #19
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    Baiul is one of my favorite skaters ever. She was one of the first skaters I began to closely watch, and like the 94 Pairs event, she ruined ladies skating for me too. No one ever came close to her artistically in the sense that she had an inexplicable magic and naturalism no one ever had. Other ladies had moments of greatness, but they were never like her. Even with Yuna, Mao, Caro, they couldn't replace the void Baiul left behind - for me anyway.

    All that being said - she made way too many mistakes to deserve the gold, even the silver. Pangtongfan is right - she did 2foot the lutz in the SP. A measly 2axel-2toe combo towards the end, the 2axel was also 2footed, missed closing spin, choreography, and footwork as a result, 3toe also 2footed (she is a subtle two-footer), 3flip 2footed, and really only 3 clean triples and no second 3lutz. Suppose she got 6.0s (which she didn't) for Presentation but 5.3s for technical merit... that is not OGM or silver marks.

    Kerrigan, yes, I agree, she is the least charismatic but outwardly elegant skater, but she did do a 3-3 and 2 lutzes. The Militano muzak was horrible but many skated to muzak those days and sometimes today people still do.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Kerrigan, yes, I agree, she is the least charismatic but outwardly elegant skater, but she did do a 3-3 and 2 lutzes. The Militano muzak was horrible but many skated to muzak those days and sometimes today people still do.
    Kerrigan did one triple lutz and doubled her flip. Also, she seemed to get super excited before her program ended and had a scratchy 2A.

    At the time, I thought Kerrigan had been completely robbed, but in retrospect, I can see what a leg up Oksana had in artistry, and I'd be ok with either of them winning. Had Kerrigan not doubled her flip or had she not had such a bizarre program, I think she would've deserved the win hands down.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelENTL View Post
    Kerrigan did one triple lutz and doubled her flip. Also, she seemed to get super excited before her program ended and had a scratchy 2A.

    At the time, I thought Kerrigan had been completely robbed, but in retrospect, I can see what a leg up Oksana had in artistry, and I'd be ok with either of them winning. Had Kerrigan not doubled her flip or had she not had such a bizarre program, I think she would've deserved the win hands down.
    I was torn because I liked them both but I felt Nancy had cleaner jumps even though she doubled the flip.

  7. #22
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    Lillehammer Revisited
    I was in Lillehammer working for TV and watched every single practice as well as the final performances. T&D were very slow in the CDs and made technical errors in those performances. Their OD was wonderful. In practices for the FD they were totally choreographing it “on the fly” because they were upset at losing the FD at Euros (even though they won overall). After getting feedback from Euros, they began inserting moves taken from previous programs, to the point that I (and probably most of the judges) recognized the FD as a rehash of some of their older winning programs - “the best of T&D” instead of new innovative choreo for which they were renowned – and they were very slow compared to Grishuk & Platov.

    As far as Mishkutenok & Dmitriev, their practices were frightful, never a clean run-through. I am sure Scott Hamilton saw some of that as well as I did. However on the night of the performances, they were solid. I asked coach Moskvina what she said to them to make such a difference, she laughed and said she sprinkled magic dust on them before their performance. But I believe that M&D didn’t win overall because the judges watched some of their practices and decided right then and there that the gold would not be theirs, especially since Gordeeva & Grinkov had solid practices every day – unfortunately not in the final FS performance.

  8. #23
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    After getting feedback from Euros, they began inserting moves taken from previous programs, to the point that I (and probably most of the judges) recognized the FD as a rehash of some of their older winning programs - “the best of T&D” instead of new innovative choreo for which they were renowned
    The judges should have compared their dance to other teams' programmes, and not their previous dances. It happens in FS that skaters return with even almost the same programmes as in other seasons and still they are not punished for that.

    In practices for the FD they were totally choreographing it “on the fly” because they were upset at losing the FD at Euros (even though they won overall).
    So maybe judges marked them for their practices, just like you've wrtitten, it happened to M&D (which I also heard).

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Oksana's Lillihamer SP is probably my all-time favorite SP. Her body, face, and movement capture every mood of the music. She was the best spinner of the top ladies (excluding the Swiss girls) and she had some neat tricks in that program, including the entrance to the 2A. For those who haven't seen it, here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g
    This did not touch me at all.... and I remember the mini controversy around that time. I am glad she won, but today's skaters are miles above this program.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Lillehammer Revisited
    I was in Lillehammer working for TV and watched every single practice as well as the final performances. T&D were very slow in the CDs and made technical errors in those performances. Their OD was wonderful. In practices for the FD they were totally choreographing it “on the fly” because they were upset at losing the FD at Euros (even though they won overall). After getting feedback from Euros, they began inserting moves taken from previous programs, to the point that I (and probably most of the judges) recognized the FD as a rehash of some of their older winning programs - “the best of T&D” instead of new innovative choreo for which they were renowned – and they were very slow compared to Grishuk & Platov.

    As far as Mishkutenok & Dmitriev, their practices were frightful, never a clean run-through. I am sure Scott Hamilton saw some of that as well as I did. However on the night of the performances, they were solid. I asked coach Moskvina what she said to them to make such a difference, she laughed and said she sprinkled magic dust on them before their performance. But I believe that M&D didn’t win overall because the judges watched some of their practices and decided right then and there that the gold would not be theirs, especially since Gordeeva & Grinkov had solid practices every day – unfortunately not in the final FS performance.
    Oh please tell us more real stories!!!!

    Some judges don't even go to practices. Didn't John Curry even say that some judges don't even watch the competitions

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelENTL View Post
    Kerrigan did one triple lutz and doubled her flip. Also, she seemed to get super excited before her program ended and had a scratchy 2A.

    At the time, I thought Kerrigan had been completely robbed, but in retrospect, I can see what a leg up Oksana had in artistry, and I'd be ok with either of them winning. Had Kerrigan not doubled her flip or had she not had such a bizarre program, I think she would've deserved the win hands down.

    My bad. I didn't bother re-watching that horrifying muzak program. I mean, who would want to

    Well... I still think that while Oksana's style and artistry is pretty much universally preferred over everyone else in that event, she didn't have enough technical content to merit the gold. Of course, her artistry is one of the best ever, right up there with Lynn, even though Baiul didn't go as far as she could have developed. I really liked some of her pro programs in the late 90s but some of her later show programs were utter crap.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatefan17 View Post
    This did not touch me at all.... and I remember the mini controversy around that time. I am glad she won, but today's skaters are miles above this program.
    Why do people always say that today's skaters are "better" - today's skaters were inspired by past skater's who provided the foundation for them to emulate.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Oksana's Lillihamer SP is probably my all-time favorite SP. Her body, face, and movement capture every mood of the music. She was the best spinner of the top ladies (excluding the Swiss girls) and she had some neat tricks in that program, including the entrance to the 2A. For those who haven't seen it, here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g
    Oksana Baiul had brilliant SPs when she was actually forced to do stuff like actual technical elements in the SP. IMO, her Barcelona Nights SP from the year before is even more magical than her Black Swan:

    http://youtu.be/9PQBBXDId-g

    Like others on this thread, I love watching Baiul skate but her cheesy, technically-underwhelming LP in Lillehammer was horrendously overscored and did not deserve the OGM.

  14. #29
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    I have fond memories of 1994. It wasn't just the Tonya / Nancy drama, it was also the dance-off in the FD, the entire men's event (Kurt's blow-up and redemption a la Mao Asada), and the magical pairs final flight. Hated Scott's commentary but the top 4 pairs were all at the top of their game.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Well, being (probably) one of the younger FS fans, I didn't get to see the events unfold as they happened. Looking back on skates... (Hoping to provide an "outsider" perspective without emotions from the time, but maybe I'm just uninformed).


    Ladies: I think Baiul was the right choice. Just like there should be a minimal technical standard for a champion... there should be a minimum artistic standard as well. Kerrigan's skate, imo, worse than watching paint dry. Baiul, even with the mistakes, brought a crazy amount of star power. And she sold the hell out of her program, even if it was showtunes (alright, in a cheesy way, I kinda enjoy showtunes. And the music was certainly no worse than Kerrigan's). Since the artistic mark is the tiebreaker, I think a 5.8/5.8 vs. 5.7/5.9 scoring would've been fair, giving Baiul the win. That being said, I can see why other people would think Kerrigan was robbed. It is a sport, after all, and even though I found Kerrigan's skate one of the least artistic things I've ever seen, she did land the jumps.

    .
    I disagree that Nancy was boring, non-artistic, etc. Nancy had grace and strength. Her programs were related more to modern dance than ballet. Her moves were timed to the music and some were unique. Most of the skaters today are baseing their programs on ballet - the willowy arms and delicate hand movements. Not all women relate to this feminine style and I wonder what happens to those skaters. I wish more women would take up the more modern style Nancy chose. I found it strong and beautiful. As far as Oksana - I didn´t like her skating - her appealing to the audience loked cheesy to me. But, we all have our separate opinions.

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