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Thread: Should figure skating be removed from the Olympic games?

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Ven:
    I didn't say I supported the Sochi results. I said we can't say with absolute certainty that Adelina with a fall would've won over a clean Yuna. I personally don't think she would've; you think she would. That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend to omniscience.

    Your post about "people defending Sochi results liking Russian skaters" reveals a lot about where you stand on this debate, too.
    I would say with a lot (though not absolute) of certainty, Sotnikova with a fall on one of her elements would have resulted in a loss... given her elements' GOE she would lose about 4 points on every successful triple with positive GOE that she otherwise had, and then her PCS would have dropped enough to put her just behind Kim. You'd also have to think that there's no way the judges would dare give Kim a loss after a fall from Sotnikova. Even still, that would have been outrageous in that it still would likely beat Kostner. But the reality is, she didn't fall.

    Obviously there was pro-Russian judging in place which resulted in her win, but I think a fall versus a clean skate is different than a stepout with a clean skate. I mean, it's not the first time a Russian(s) with a stepout was placed ahead of a clean skater(s).

  2. #137
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    @Ven
    Ah, okay. I'm protesting too much? Well, I admit I'm not absolutely thrilled about Post #130. Whether it was your intent or not, it clearly sounds like you're saying I'm a "figure skating fan burying my head in the sand." Even though all we disagree on is how far the homecooking could've gone. Ah well.

  3. #138
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    Well, we know one thing for sure. She could have had the step out and added a popped jump and still won. Heck, they didn't call her URs or wrong edges, either.

    @Sandpiper

    Two things here. In the one post, I didn't name names for a reason. I'm just saying there are some posters here who are fervently pro-Russian and I really don't pay any attention to what they say (on this matter). There seems to be an awful lot of Russian nationalism these days that I find disgusting. I hate it when I see it here by my fellow Americans, frankly.

    Second, the other post was directed at all skating fans and people who care for skating. The reason the sport continues to be corrupt and broken is because nobody ever cared enough to fix it. Yes, some people here and there do. BoP give him credit for his effort, that's just one instance. But by and large people associated with figure skating just accept all of the shenanigans that go along with this sport. And that's why my position is that, if the fanbase and skaters and coaches and everyone more less are inclined to put up with cheating and corruption, then the sport deserves to be laughing stock.

    On the other hand, if we want the sport to be taken seriously, and become everything that it can be and more, then we should do everything in our power to speak up and show that we don't accept corruption in sports. As a fan, we won't spend another dollar towards the ISU. I will not attend any ISU event or watch any ISU event on television. As a skater or coach or someone more associated with figure skating, other people should speak up and speak with honesty and integrity. Ashley Wagner and Kurt Browning were good examples after the Sochi farce. There were others, but sadly not enough.

  4. #139
    Love popcorn, hate horrendous costumes. Meoima's Avatar
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    The problem is, it's not only the ISU members who will have to suffer if the whole system dies, but all the skaters, coaches, rinks managers...will have to suffer as well. They will have no money to continue. ISU has been rotten for years, thanks to Speedy, but without ISU, what will the skaters do?

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    what will the skaters do?
    Apparently they will only be skating one program per season from now on. In front of diminishing audiences and lower and lower ratings on tv.

  6. #141
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    @Ven
    Thank you for clarifying. I don't agree with everything in your post, but I think we can have a better discussion when you break the argument down like that. I just can't get behind the whole "Adelina definitely would have won with two falls!!" thing because it's speculation that cannot be proven.

    I'm neither American nor Russian, and I dislike ultra-nationalism from both sides. I also don't think it's my duty to support athletes from my own country--I believe in everyone supporting the athletes they personally enjoy.

    Going back to the original question: we shouldn't remove figure skating from the Olympics because of Sochi--that'll kill figure skating before anyone can fix it. I'm sure we all want fairer scoring, but it's impossible to agree what fairer scoring is.

    Over the years, there have been many results that I didn't agree with. But I don't think it's helpful to stop watching figure skating altogether every time. I think Yuna would rather her sport stays alive, rather than having it die because she did not win gold.

    As you yourself have noted, there was a lot of protest. Sadly, a lot of it seems directed futilely at Adelina herself instead of the judging.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    The problem is, it's not only the ISU members who will have to suffer if the whole system dies, but all the skaters, coaches, rinks managers...will have to suffer as well. They will have no money to continue. ISU has been rotten for years, thanks to Speedy, but without ISU, what will the skaters do?
    Perhaps ISU should be split into 2 separate federations - one for figure skating and one for speed skating? Then the figure skating community could have its own head without someone like Speedy running it. And why hasn't he been removed before now or retired? He should have been gone years ago.

  8. #143
    Love popcorn, hate horrendous costumes. Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Apparently they will only be skating one program per season from now on. In front of diminishing audiences and lower and lower ratings on tv.
    Short program is not killed. There is no proposal about killing short program submitted to the council.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Pangtongfan, if you're unsure of where a poster is from, go check out the "favorite skaters thread", the one where everyone posts their least favorite program by their favorite skaters.

    I found it amusing that so many of the people who continue to post in these threads in support of Sochi results listed nearly all Russians as their favorite skaters across all disciplines.
    Just for curiosity: so are you really seriously thinking I am Russian and this is the only reason I am defending Sochi results?

  10. #145
    Love popcorn, hate horrendous costumes. Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CezarMart View Post
    Just for curiosity: so are you really seriously thinking I am Russian and this is the only reason I am defending Sochi results?
    Some even seriously say I am a big Mao fan (even though I have only watched 3-4 programs of her entire career ever) because I said Mao free skate at Sochi deserved a world record. Meh! I haven't watched her for years! What is her birthday anyways?
    People surely have weird assumption.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Some even seriously say I am a big Mao fan (even though I have only watched 3-4 programs of her entire career ever) because I said Mao free skate at Sochi deserved a world record. Meh! I haven't watched her for years! What is her birthday anyways?
    People surely have weird assumption.
    Glad that you agree on her getting a world record score at Sochi. I think the performance speaks for itself and more than anything else shows how the Olympic scoring was totally unfair. I don't think someone has to be a Mao fan to think her performance is great, although it could certainly make some converts. However, I do think it is too defeatist to take FS out of the Olympics. Then, we would never see performances like this again. Mao's birthday is September 25, 1990.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Short program is not killed. There is no proposal about killing short program submitted to the council.
    So has that rumour/report been officially denied and put to rest now?

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    I found it amusing that so many of the people who continue to post in these threads in support of Sochi results listed nearly all Russians as their favorite skaters across all disciplines.
    Oh really? I think the Sochi results were correct, but the Russians on my favourites list are heavily outnumbered by Australians and Americans....

  14. #149
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    It's one thing for the purposes of sarcasm to say a step out and popped jump would have got her the win (I mean people make ridiculous hyperbolic statements about 4/5 fall cushions and pull numbers out of you know where), but for actual discussion purposes, and looking at the scores, do you honestly think Kim wouldn't have won if Sot had popped and stepped out? I mean a popped flip would have been a loss of over 5 points (considering the points she got on her solo flip), costing her the win.

  15. #150
    Yulia forver! I'm on team dumped Ice Dance. Alba's Avatar
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    Pangtongfan, if you're unsure of where a poster is from, go check out the "favorite skaters thread", the one where everyone posts their least favorite program by their favorite skaters.
    I hope you do realise how stupid this comment is.

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