Should figure skating be removed from the Olympic games?

Mathman · Apr 27, 2014

pec0 said:
I did not say that.

There is a number of distinguished international competitions. Currently one of them is imposed by IOC to invalidate any other achivements in any other competitions. It is a kind of monopoly. If all international competitions are equal, then current problem, buy the strongest card to name youself as the Absolute Greatest, will be solved.

Thank you for the explanation. I agree with this. No need to mention any particular skater, but is winning an Olympic gold medal the only thing that counts? Is Katarina Witt (two Olympic gold medals) better than Michelle Kwan (five world championships)? I look at it this way: We will have another Olympic gold medalist in four years no matter what. How long will we have to wait to see another five-time world champion? (Unless Mao wins the next two years.

)

But that's up to us, to decide who we think is the greatest. We don't have to cancel the Olympics to carry on the discussion.

Mathman · Apr 27, 2014

Mafke said:
I think that ultimately (thinking in decades rather than years) being dropped form the olympics could be the best thing that ever happened for the integrity of figure skating.

NB I didn't say 'popularity' or 'visibility' but integrity which is an entirely different issue.

It's a tough choice. To die with honour or to live in shame.

treeloving · Apr 27, 2014

Almost half of winter olympic sport are judge sport anyway.

Alba · Apr 27, 2014

pec0 said:
Maybe figure skate should not be categorized as sports, and therefore is not appropriate for Olympic.

Than it's not appropriate to have a WC, Euros etc.

Clear judge system seems not possible.

Same as other sports.

Besides it is actually used for policital propaganda by some country repeatedly

This logic can be used for any sport.

If people think country with more Olympic medals is superior compared to those with less medals, then figure skate could be used for such assertion. It is not good.

What's wrong with that and why it is not good?

Sam-Skwantch · Apr 27, 2014

Mafke said:
I think that ultimately (thinking in decades rather than years) being dropped form the olympics could be the best thing that ever happened for the integrity of figure skating.

NB I didn't say 'popularity' or 'visibility' but integrity which is an entirely different issue.

I understand the logic here but this does not take into account all the hours spent by the budding artists and skaters on the verge of greatness that would be lost. I'd rather sacrifice another Yuna, if you can even call it that, to preserve even one Matthew Parr. Sure it's great to win a medal but if you stop and think about it. You will see that most atheletes in any Olympic sport aren't going to win medals. To them the journey is a reward and the games are just a dream that came into fruition. I'm not on board to sacrifice an entire generation of skaters! That would be a bigger loss in my mind.

Mathman · Apr 27, 2014

Alba said:
What's wrong with that and why it is not good?

I think Pec0's lament is this: During the Cold War the United States and the Soviet Union went back and forth with, "Ha ha, we won the most gold medals. This proves that Capitalism (Communism) is superior to Communism (Capitalism). In fact, we will just boycott your Olympics altogether, nyah nyah

"

The modern equivalent seems to be, ha ha, Kim (Mao) just won a prize. This shows that Korea (Japan) is great and Japan (Korea) sucks, and has done so for centuries.

Personally, I never forgave Patrick Chan for the Pig War (between the U.S. and Canada, 1859).

pec0 · Apr 27, 2014

Alba said:
Than it's not appropriate to have a WC, Euros etc.

Same as other sports.

This logic can be used for any sport.

What's wrong with that and why it is not good?

I think you either feign brainless or trying to cheat the logic

There are competitions for dance. Why not commpetition for figure skate?
I think it is OK if lowest and easiest program win due to EFFORTLESSNESS and FLOW, but it is not OK to make deductions to validly executed elements of particuler hated athlete in order that EFFORLESS person can win. If judges want to make EFFORTLESS person win, then they may give a lot of bonus points to such person and EXPLAIN as such.

For example of other sports, swimming is about time record so it is corruption free than figure skate.

If OP medal is supposed to nullify any other achievements, then IOC can sell the medal for high price.

Alba · Apr 27, 2014

Mathman said:
I think Pec0's lament is this: During the Cold War the United States and the Soviet Union went back and forth with, "Ha ha, we won the most gold medals. This proves that Capitalism (Communism) is superior to Communism (Capitalism). In fact, we will just boycott your Olympics altogether, nyah nyah "

The modern equivalent seems to be, ha ha, Kim (Mao) just won a prize. This shows that Korea (Japan) is great and Japan (Korea) sucks, and has done so for centuries.

Personally, I never forgave Patrick Chan for the Pig War (between the U.S. and Canada, 1859).

Yeah well, it's part of the game. Take it for what they are.
Countries invest in sports and athletes represent their countries. It's not something related to FS only.

pec0 · Apr 27, 2014

Mathman said:
I think Pec0's lament is this: During the Cold War the United States and the Soviet Union went back and forth with, "Ha ha, we won the most gold medals. This proves that Capitalism (Communism) is superior to Communism (Capitalism). In fact, we will just boycott your Olympics altogether, nyah nyah "

The modern equivalent seems to be, ha ha, Kim (Mao) just won a prize. This shows that Korea (Japan) is great and Japan (Korea) sucks, and has done so for centuries.

Personally, I never forgave Patrick Chan for the Pig War (between the U.S. and Canada, 1859).

I think a Korean judge made deduction for every jump of Asada. Therefore I never forgive Koreans.

Alba · Apr 27, 2014

pec0 said:
I think you either feign brainless or trying to cheat the logic
There are competitions for dance. Why not commpetition for figure skate?
I think it is OK if lowest and easiest program win due to EFFORTLESSNESS and FLOW, but it is not OK to make deductions to validly executed elements of particuler hated athlete in order that EFFORLESS person can win. If judges want to make EFFORTLESS person win, then they may give a lot of bonus points to such person and EXPLAIN as such.

Or I don't know what the hell are you talking about?

For example of other sports, swimming is about time record so it is corruption free than figure skate.

There are other judged sports, so why only FS should not be included in Olympic Games?

If OP medal is supposed to nullify any other achievements, then IOC can sell the medal for high price.

Why is a medal supposed to nullify any other achievement? Olympics, like any other championship is a competition.
Following your logic (if I can call it a logic) no competition should exist for any kind of sport.

Mathman · Apr 27, 2014

pec0 said:
I think a Korean judge made deduction for every jump of Asada. Therefore I never forgive Koreans.

See, that's wrong. Never forgive that mean judge if you must, but "all Koreans" are not at fault. (That's what I think.)

Meoima · Apr 27, 2014

Alba said:
Or I don't know what the hell are you talking about?
There are other judges sports, so why only FS should not be included in Olympic Games?
Why is a medal supposed to nullify any other achievement? Olympics, like any other championship as a competition.
Following your logic (if I can call it a logic) no competition should exist for any kind of sport.

I told you we have a more serious case than Skyfly. :disapp: at least Skyfly would now and then drop us a little bit of facts (like who is who, how tall the skater is).

Alba · Apr 27, 2014

Meoima said:
I told you we have a more serious case than Skyfly. :disapp: at least Skyfly would now and then drop us a little bit of facts (like who is who, how tall the skater is).

pec0 said:
I think a Korean judge made deduction for every jump of Asada. Therefore I never forgive Koreans.

Oh I see now. You think a Korean judge did that (based on what exactly?), therefore you'll never forgive Koreans (the whole nation). So, FS should not be an Olympic Sport. I assume that if that judge did not make any deduction for every jump of Asada then FS would be fine as an Olympic Sport right? :slink:

karne · Apr 27, 2014

pec0 said:
I think a Korean judge made deduction for every jump of Asada. Therefore I never forgive Koreans.

Well now, this explains a lot.

Duality · Apr 27, 2014

Figure skating in general - no
Ice dancing - maybe

snowflakebeautiful · Apr 27, 2014

Mathman said:
It's a tough choice. To die with honour or to live in shame.

Personally, I say - let's live a little!

Every sport (no matter what it is) has its controversies. Does that mean that we kick out all of those sports and disallow elite level athletes the opportunity and honor they have been working towards their entire lives to be in the Olympics (because it is such a highly publicized and acclaimed event)? No way! Those athletes and us as viewers know that most things, including competitions, are not always fair. That's just the sad truth. You just have to get back up and roll with the punches - it doesn't mean you end it all and accept total defeat.

pec0 · Apr 28, 2014

Alba said:
Oh I see now. You think a Korean judge did that (based on what exactly?), therefore you'll never forgive Koreans (the whole nation). So, FS should not be an Olympic Sport. I assume that if that judge did not make any deduction for every jump of Asada then FS would be fine as an Olympic Sport right?

I have serious question: do Koreans assume that you can do what ever you want to if you are in charge? Is that just Korean culture? Koreans should have read tons of statements by Korean international judges ,Ji hee I or Ko Song Fi to promise in Korean papers to secure high GOE only for Korean skater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29XpwaYO1Z0
In this video , Korean female judge is keep pushing yellow button(deduction) too quickly for anything Japanese skater does. She gave -2 for Asada's 3A.

pec0 · Apr 28, 2014

She is keep pushing Green(addition) for Korean skater.
I see judges from other countries often give high points to compatriot players in other sports events.

pec0 · Apr 28, 2014

Alba said:
Why is a medal supposed to nullify any other achievement? Olympics, like any other championship as a competition.
Following your logic (if I can call it a logic) no competition should exist for any kind of sport.

Recently in other thread majority said that OG is the most significant of all figure skate events. I do not understand your last line.

Ven · Apr 28, 2014

There's nothing wrong with judgement in sports; officiating exists even in the most objective of competitions.

The problem with figure skating is that the judging is not based on what the competitors actually do. The placements are agreed upon behind closed doors, according to political deals struck back and forth (i.e. traded favors).

The leadership of the ISU is corrupt. The leadership of the member federations (Russia, U.S., Japan, Canada, even KSU and smaller nations) are corrupt. The judges are corrupt. It's the same people doing the same things for many years now. The corruption is endemic to the sport.

The only way figure skating will be healed would be a full purge:

1. ISU eliminated, new sanctioning body created

2. top ISU leadership banned from the sport for life

3. Russian, U.S., Canadian, Japanese, etc (all nations) federation leadership banned from the sport for life

4. Independent investigation of all judges, any findings = banned for life

------

Outside of this, figure skating will be something watched by an ever decreasing small number of people as time goes by. Nobody has interest in watching rigged farces, where the results contradict what they see with their own eyes.

Should figure skating be removed from the Olympic games?

Mathman

Mathman

treeloving

Alba

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Mathman

pec0

Match Penalty

Alba

pec0

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Alba

Mathman

Meoima

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Alba

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Duality

snowflakebeautiful

pec0

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pec0

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pec0

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Ven

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