Should figure skating be removed from the Olympic games? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Should figure skating be removed from the Olympic games?

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
^I think Yuna SP was very spectacular (in terms of a "casual fan" visual perspective, not in terms of levels/scores). I liked her LP too, but I can understand why some people might not. Mao's LP was the performance of the night, but sadly it was never going to be enough after that short program.

In case you weren't watching, Sotnikova's LP (with many errors) outscored Mao's LP by more than Mao outscored Lipnitskaia (who fell all over herself).

Had Asada skated a clean short, she still would have been annihilated by Sotnikova's score. Need anyone say more?

The other skaters had no chance because the results were predetermined according to deals that were struck before the Games. All the Russians had to do was stay upright and they would have finished 1-2. Lipnitskaia fell so many times and was so awful that not even her ridiculously inflated scores could put her on the podium. Sotnikova on the other hand managed to skate relatively well (hey, she deserved to be on the podium for sure) that virtually all of her errors were overlooked and her scores were goal-seeked to ensure victory.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Mao's scores weren't right. But even if she'd broken Yuna's record, she would've been off the podium.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Mao's scores weren't right. But even if she'd broken Yuna's record, she would've been off the podium.

Even if she had skated both programs completely clean, she would have lost to Sotnikova.

It continues to baffle me how clueless so many people can be. There was not a single thing any other skater could do because the competition was fixed. It's like buying a lottery ticket to a rigged lottery. You can't win.

Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Michelle Kwan, Dorothy Hamill, Peggy Fleming, Katerina Witt, and Sonja Henie could have done 10 triples if they let them and started floating in the air and they still wouldn't have beaten Sotnikova on that night.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Even if she had skated both programs completely clean, she would have lost to Sotnikova.

This is not necessarily true. Her FS might have outscored Sotnikova without the UR and with the resulting reduced GOE. But if she did a clean SP like in Saitama, she would have been above Sotnikova. It would have been close, but I think Mao would have been placed higher if she did everything clean. Her SP would have been about 20 points higher, and her FS about 5 points higher.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Even if she had skated both programs completely clean, she would have lost to Sotnikova.

I wish that had happened. Mao's LP from the Games (completely clean would actually mean a bit better too, wow) and her SP from worlds losing to freaking Sotnikova!?!? The outcry from the world would be so much the IOC would have had to step in which apparently they were already on the verge of doing as it was.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
This is not necessarily true. Her FS might have outscored Sotnikova without the UR and with the resulting reduced GOE.

You're still missing the point. Sotnikova would never get called for an UR and Asada would have been called for UR's at the quarter turn. They would have defended after by saying it was "a close call and tech panel's judgement."

There is no point to breaking down points here or there. The totals were goal-seeked to ensure desired outcomes.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
The only way the Russians would have lost was if they made enough mistakes to make their victory seem implausible and unacceptable to the public.
As long as the ISU and broadcasters could muster any kind of half-hearted defense of a fix, they would do so. The Russians did not pay $50 billion to host the Olympics for nothing, after all.

And even then, as this case demonstrates, they were willing to stretch the credibility of the competition beyond all belief.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
I really appreciate your omniscience, Ven.

Figure skating fans seem to have a unique ability to bury their head in the sand.

Then people complain about how things never get fixed, year after year. Then the arenas are empty, and the ISU is suddenly bankrupt.

Maybe figure skating deserves to be laughed at, if the people involved in the sport are not able to get their act together.
 

Anna K.

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
I may not represent a casual US viewer, but as someone in between the casual viewers and the hard-core fans I can say no "bagged medal" was even noticed. If someone is ignorant to the whole Yuna legend and is not obsessively hooked to her then her performance in Sochi was seen as nothing spectacular. In fact, she was even lucky, because if Yulia and Mao hadn't self-destructed then Yuna wouldn't have been even on the podium.
So on behalf of ignorant viewers I say there was no controversy. Regular people didn't notice anything wrong and even opposite: they observed a beautiful night of magical skating concluded with very satisfying results.

Would it make my point more transparent to you if I add another sentence to my post?

I wouldn’t be that optimistic. A casual American viewer may care not for Yuna or whoever but they care for fair game more than any other casual viewers I’ve seen. In case American skaters compete for OG medals and win them, the gained additional popularity for figure skating may lead to more knowledge about its specifics and backfire as even greater popularity loss after the coveted medal is bagged :laugh:

That's what I meant. I guess the name of Yuna that was used as an example misled you a bit :)
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
The way CezarMart in all his Russian fantasy land delusion talks you would think the ISU were smoking rich and figure skating with farces like Sochi were in great shape now. Yes indeed though the ISU is almost bankrupt led by the incompetent Cinquanta. Speed skating in fact did go bankrupt and he had to steal some money from figure skating's increasingly small pool to keep it afloat, but soon there will be no saving either sport nor the ISU from its long overdue extinction.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Pangtongfan, if you're unsure of where a poster is from, go check out the "favorite skaters thread", the one where everyone posts their least favorite program by their favorite skaters.

I found it amusing that so many of the people who continue to post in these threads in support of Sochi results listed nearly all Russians as their favorite skaters across all disciplines.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Ven:
I didn't say I supported the Sochi results. I said we can't say with absolute certainty that Adelina with a fall would've won over a clean Yuna. I personally don't think she would've; you think she would. That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend to omniscience.

Your post about "people defending Sochi results liking Russian skaters" reveals a lot about where you stand on this debate, too.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Ven:
I didn't say I supported the Sochi results. I said we can't say with absolute certainty that Adelina with a fall would've won over a clean Yuna. I personally don't think she would've; you think she would. That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend to omniscience.

Your post about "people defending Sochi results liking Russian skaters" reveals a lot about where you stand on this debate, too.

I don't remember referring to you by name, did I? Perhaps you are protesting too much in this case, or just getting defensive?

In any event, my post was not directed at you or anyone in particular. But if you want to know, I have a mental list of fervently pro-Russian posters who I basically ignore. If it makes you feel any better, you're not on that list.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Ven:
I didn't say I supported the Sochi results. I said we can't say with absolute certainty that Adelina with a fall would've won over a clean Yuna. I personally don't think she would've; you think she would. That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend to omniscience.

Your post about "people defending Sochi results liking Russian skaters" reveals a lot about where you stand on this debate, too.

I would say with a lot (though not absolute) of certainty, Sotnikova with a fall on one of her elements would have resulted in a loss... given her elements' GOE she would lose about 4 points on every successful triple with positive GOE that she otherwise had, and then her PCS would have dropped enough to put her just behind Kim. You'd also have to think that there's no way the judges would dare give Kim a loss after a fall from Sotnikova. Even still, that would have been outrageous in that it still would likely beat Kostner. But the reality is, she didn't fall.

Obviously there was pro-Russian judging in place which resulted in her win, but I think a fall versus a clean skate is different than a stepout with a clean skate. I mean, it's not the first time a Russian(s) with a stepout was placed ahead of a clean skater(s).
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
@Ven
Ah, okay. I'm protesting too much? Well, I admit I'm not absolutely thrilled about Post #130. Whether it was your intent or not, it clearly sounds like you're saying I'm a "figure skating fan burying my head in the sand." Even though all we disagree on is how far the homecooking could've gone. Ah well.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Well, we know one thing for sure. She could have had the step out and added a popped jump and still won. Heck, they didn't call her URs or wrong edges, either.

@Sandpiper

Two things here. In the one post, I didn't name names for a reason. I'm just saying there are some posters here who are fervently pro-Russian and I really don't pay any attention to what they say (on this matter). There seems to be an awful lot of Russian nationalism these days that I find disgusting. I hate it when I see it here by my fellow Americans, frankly.

Second, the other post was directed at all skating fans and people who care for skating. The reason the sport continues to be corrupt and broken is because nobody ever cared enough to fix it. Yes, some people here and there do. BoP give him credit for his effort, that's just one instance. But by and large people associated with figure skating just accept all of the shenanigans that go along with this sport. And that's why my position is that, if the fanbase and skaters and coaches and everyone more less are inclined to put up with cheating and corruption, then the sport deserves to be laughing stock.

On the other hand, if we want the sport to be taken seriously, and become everything that it can be and more, then we should do everything in our power to speak up and show that we don't accept corruption in sports. As a fan, we won't spend another dollar towards the ISU. I will not attend any ISU event or watch any ISU event on television. As a skater or coach or someone more associated with figure skating, other people should speak up and speak with honesty and integrity. Ashley Wagner and Kurt Browning were good examples after the Sochi farce. There were others, but sadly not enough.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
The problem is, it's not only the ISU members who will have to suffer if the whole system dies, but all the skaters, coaches, rinks managers...will have to suffer as well. They will have no money to continue. ISU has been rotten for years, thanks to Speedy, but without ISU, what will the skaters do?
 
Top