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Thread: Should figure skating be removed from the Olympic games?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    ^I think Yuna SP was very spectacular (in terms of a "casual fan" visual perspective, not in terms of levels/scores). I liked her LP too, but I can understand why some people might not. Mao's LP was the performance of the night, but sadly it was never going to be enough after that short program.
    In case you weren't watching, Sotnikova's LP (with many errors) outscored Mao's LP by more than Mao outscored Lipnitskaia (who fell all over herself).

    Had Asada skated a clean short, she still would have been annihilated by Sotnikova's score. Need anyone say more?

    The other skaters had no chance because the results were predetermined according to deals that were struck before the Games. All the Russians had to do was stay upright and they would have finished 1-2. Lipnitskaia fell so many times and was so awful that not even her ridiculously inflated scores could put her on the podium. Sotnikova on the other hand managed to skate relatively well (hey, she deserved to be on the podium for sure) that virtually all of her errors were overlooked and her scores were goal-seeked to ensure victory.

  2. #122
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    Mao's scores weren't right. But even if she'd broken Yuna's record, she would've been off the podium.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by CezarMart View Post
    Pangpangpangpangfan is known for maturity.
    From you the irony is beyond rich.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Mao's scores weren't right. But even if she'd broken Yuna's record, she would've been off the podium.
    Even if she had skated both programs completely clean, she would have lost to Sotnikova.

    It continues to baffle me how clueless so many people can be. There was not a single thing any other skater could do because the competition was fixed. It's like buying a lottery ticket to a rigged lottery. You can't win.

    Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Michelle Kwan, Dorothy Hamill, Peggy Fleming, Katerina Witt, and Sonja Henie could have done 10 triples if they let them and started floating in the air and they still wouldn't have beaten Sotnikova on that night.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Even if she had skated both programs completely clean, she would have lost to Sotnikova.
    This is not necessarily true. Her FS might have outscored Sotnikova without the UR and with the resulting reduced GOE. But if she did a clean SP like in Saitama, she would have been above Sotnikova. It would have been close, but I think Mao would have been placed higher if she did everything clean. Her SP would have been about 20 points higher, and her FS about 5 points higher.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Even if she had skated both programs completely clean, she would have lost to Sotnikova.
    I wish that had happened. Mao's LP from the Games (completely clean would actually mean a bit better too, wow) and her SP from worlds losing to freaking Sotnikova!?!? The outcry from the world would be so much the IOC would have had to step in which apparently they were already on the verge of doing as it was.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-02-2014 at 04:42 PM. Reason: do not use disparaging nicknames for skaters.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    This is not necessarily true. Her FS might have outscored Sotnikova without the UR and with the resulting reduced GOE.
    You're still missing the point. Sotnikova would never get called for an UR and Asada would have been called for UR's at the quarter turn. They would have defended after by saying it was "a close call and tech panel's judgement."

    There is no point to breaking down points here or there. The totals were goal-seeked to ensure desired outcomes.

  8. #128
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    I really appreciate your omniscience, Ven.

  9. #129
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    The only way the Russians would have lost was if they made enough mistakes to make their victory seem implausible and unacceptable to the public.
    As long as the ISU and broadcasters could muster any kind of half-hearted defense of a fix, they would do so. The Russians did not pay $50 billion to host the Olympics for nothing, after all.

    And even then, as this case demonstrates, they were willing to stretch the credibility of the competition beyond all belief.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I really appreciate your omniscience, Ven.
    Figure skating fans seem to have a unique ability to bury their head in the sand.

    Then people complain about how things never get fixed, year after year. Then the arenas are empty, and the ISU is suddenly bankrupt.

    Maybe figure skating deserves to be laughed at, if the people involved in the sport are not able to get their act together.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by CezarMart View Post
    I may not represent a casual US viewer, but as someone in between the casual viewers and the hard-core fans I can say no "bagged medal" was even noticed. If someone is ignorant to the whole Yuna legend and is not obsessively hooked to her then her performance in Sochi was seen as nothing spectacular. In fact, she was even lucky, because if Yulia and Mao hadn't self-destructed then Yuna wouldn't have been even on the podium.
    So on behalf of ignorant viewers I say there was no controversy. Regular people didn't notice anything wrong and even opposite: they observed a beautiful night of magical skating concluded with very satisfying results.
    Would it make my point more transparent to you if I add another sentence to my post?

    I wouldn’t be that optimistic. A casual American viewer may care not for Yuna or whoever but they care for fair game more than any other casual viewers I’ve seen. In case American skaters compete for OG medals and win them, the gained additional popularity for figure skating may lead to more knowledge about its specifics and backfire as even greater popularity loss after the coveted medal is bagged
    That's what I meant. I guess the name of Yuna that was used as an example misled you a bit

  12. #132
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    The way CezarMart in all his Russian fantasy land delusion talks you would think the ISU were smoking rich and figure skating with farces like Sochi were in great shape now. Yes indeed though the ISU is almost bankrupt led by the incompetent Cinquanta. Speed skating in fact did go bankrupt and he had to steal some money from figure skating's increasingly small pool to keep it afloat, but soon there will be no saving either sport nor the ISU from its long overdue extinction.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-02-2014 at 04:43 PM.

  13. #133
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    Pangtongfan, if you're unsure of where a poster is from, go check out the "favorite skaters thread", the one where everyone posts their least favorite program by their favorite skaters.

    I found it amusing that so many of the people who continue to post in these threads in support of Sochi results listed nearly all Russians as their favorite skaters across all disciplines.

  14. #134
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    Ven:
    I didn't say I supported the Sochi results. I said we can't say with absolute certainty that Adelina with a fall would've won over a clean Yuna. I personally don't think she would've; you think she would. That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend to omniscience.

    Your post about "people defending Sochi results liking Russian skaters" reveals a lot about where you stand on this debate, too.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Ven:
    I didn't say I supported the Sochi results. I said we can't say with absolute certainty that Adelina with a fall would've won over a clean Yuna. I personally don't think she would've; you think she would. That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend to omniscience.

    Your post about "people defending Sochi results liking Russian skaters" reveals a lot about where you stand on this debate, too.
    I don't remember referring to you by name, did I? Perhaps you are protesting too much in this case, or just getting defensive?

    In any event, my post was not directed at you or anyone in particular. But if you want to know, I have a mental list of fervently pro-Russian posters who I basically ignore. If it makes you feel any better, you're not on that list.

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