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Thread: Canadian pairs news: M-T/M and P/M have split

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    LLoyd Eisler was a bit of hot head, but he was also skating at time when there was vote-fixing in the judging system.
    Sure but it was mostly in their favor. They were never robbed of a single medal their entire career. If you can think of one feel free to bring it up. Meanwhile their bronze at the 92 Olympics with their splatfest was a huge gift. Kovarikova & Novotny were robbed. It was purely a reputation medal, the two time world silver medalists vs a team who had been 6th and 8th at the last two worlds. Their 94 Olympics performances were excellent, but even there many thought Shishkova & Naumov should have gotten the bronze instead. Nobody suggested Eisler deserving better than a bronze either time, other than maybe Eisler himself. Yes G&G were probably overmarked at those Games, and probably should have lost gold to M&D who were inspired that night.

    They won the world title in the only year they deserved it- 1993. Their silver in Canada at the 1990 worlds was if anything probably boosted by home crowd. They skated a cleaner LP than G&G, but even had they won the LP they wouldnt have won as they were 4th in the SP (correctly) and G&G 1st (also correctly), and meanwhile Miskutienok & Dmitriev and possibly even Selezneva & Makarov outskated both teams in the LP, but the judges ignored this reality. The 91 worlds they probably would have won (and probably not even deservedly over M&D's masterpiece that night) had he not singled his double axel. The 92 worlds they had another meltdown and again were lucky to get bronze. 94 worlds they skated bravely through injury and rightfully won the silver behind S&N's better and cleaner skate.

    Read Debbie Wilkes book and how she references him throwing and breaking chairs backstage sometimes, and how she was scared at times of his violence and agression, especialy when he didnt like her commentary, and how his basis for whining about the reinstated pros was partly "give younger skaters a chance", and as she put it "this coming from a man competing in his 4th Olympics." He also apparently wrote a letter of complaint (according to her own words) to Debbie Wilkes about her commentary at Skate Canada 93 where she pointed out G&G had a good shot of the Oly gold in their comeback. I guess she was supposed to pretend they were the heavy underdogs to reigning world champions Brasseur & Eisler or something. As she put it "what was I supposed to say. My credability was on the line, and nothing I was going to say was going to bestow the title of favorites on lloyd and isabelle. Commentators dont have that kind of power as much as some people think."


    But none of this is that unusual compared to things skaters in other countries say. Since we're Canadian shouldn't we support our figure skaters on the whole unless they say something really unforgivable?
    I am not one of those blind flag waver types. Just because I am Canadian I dont take it upon myself that is it my "duty" to blindly root for every Canadian skater no matter what, even ones falling 4 or 5 times, being gifted gold medals over better performances, and laughing about it (eg- Chan). If a skater is an arrogant jerk with poor sportsmanship(as all those names I gave CLEARLY are, I never considered Manley as such until reading her biography and suddenly learnt she was a whole different person than I imagined) then that is just reality, and that is what many of Canada's marquee skaters in recent times are.

  2. #107
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    Yes, but ptfan, you also have Kurt Browning. I will always be jealous of Canada for that.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I frankly don't understand how split-happy a lot of teams seem to be, ESPECIALLY in North America, and there especially in the USA. It is as though they expect instant results (instant=within 2 seasons) and when they fail to get this they move on to the next train wreck, giving it a go for 2 seasons and when not winning world medals, giving up and trying the next partner, almost like they are switching pairs of shoes.
    I think you make a good point. Perhaps skating partnerships in today's era are a reflection of the high rate of divorce in our culture. There is more impatience and desire for instant gratification and for everything to be perfect right away. Many couples claim "irreconcilable differences" after barely working it out.

    I'm not sure how this issue can be addressed in the skating world. Should federations and coaches make it harder to form a new partnership and try to make the current teams work out their differences? One of the challenges in the athletic world is that it can pass you by very quickly, and so I think a lot of skaters feel they have to make changes when another partner is 'on the market' or sometimes even take someone else's partner (leading to accusations of 'partner stealing' as we've seen in the I&K / S&Z drama in Russia).

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I am not one of those blind flag waver types. Just because I am Canadian I dont take it upon myself that is it my "duty" to blindly root for every Canadian skater no matter what, even ones falling 4 or 5 times, being gifted gold medals over better performances, and laughing about it (eg- Chan). If a skater is an arrogant jerk with poor sportsmanship(as all those names I gave CLEARLY are, I never considered Manley as such until reading her biography and suddenly learnt she was a whole different person than I imagined) then that is just reality, and that is what many of Canada's marquee skaters in recent times are.
    I didn't read it. What did she say?! Spill!!

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider11 View Post
    So back to Moore-Towers and Moskovitch splitting. Terrible! I really enjoyed them at found them not only technically good but artistically very pleasing. Meghan and Eric are mechanical. I always hated seeing Meghan "lecture" Eric at the end of each performance. Give it a break. I presume Dylan is the one stepping away. So best wishes to Kristen in finding an equal - and make it fast!
    Did she really do it that often? I can believe it happening sometimes, though. Meghan is a tough cookie. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that so long as she doesn't say anything that badly represents Canada or her partner. This is 2014 and it's perfectly okay for the woman to be the leader in a skating partnership. She did have more international experience than Eric when they got together, as well.

    However, some people don't like Meghan's strong confidence because it can be perceived as too boastful. There are several critical comments about Meghan on threads in this forum for when she predicted that she and Eric were going to win the World Championships in Japan last month.

  6. #111
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    I didn't think that Meagan ever lectured Eric. She was just giving an analysis of the performance (sometimes it did start when they were still on the ice, lol) but she wasn't nagging or criticizing HIM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I didn't think that Meagan ever lectured Eric. She was just giving an analysis of the performance (sometimes it did start when they were still on the ice, lol) but she wasn't nagging or criticizing HIM.
    LOL. Most of the time, SHE was the one who made the mistakes.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    While it might seem harsh and she skated an excellent SP and decent LP if one wants to be frank Osmond single handedly took Team Canada from gold to silver. Canada lost the gold to Russia by 7 points. Osmond gave up 8 points to Julia L. There you have it.

    CSG using that as something to base Osmond > Gold on is utter desperation and straw grasping even for his standards. Atleast her Skate Canada win (while questionable at best) could atleast be something valid.
    I was simply stating Osmond has an Olympic team silver and Gold has an Olympic team bronze. That is a fact. And you do realise that it's merely to poke fun at sky_fly that I bring that FACT up, along with the FACT that Osmond has international wins while Gold does not. Obviously I've acknowledged many times that Gold is the better skater of the two at this point, and has been for some time. But for anyone to deflect Gold's lack of podium finishes by tearing down a skater who actually has international wins and has been injured, is pretty hilarious and that nonsense needs to be shut down.

    Speaking of nonsense that needs to be shut down, Osmond didn't single-handedly take Team Canada from gold to silver. Firstly, everyone knows women's is Canada's weakest discipline, so that's hardly news that Osmond was the lowest ranking in the team event. But not only was Osmond arguably robbed of 3rd in the SP, you know very well that there's no way in hell Osmond would have beat Julia the way Julia skated in the team event (even if Osmond was perfect - which, as we saw, placed her 5th to Julia's 1st, even with a clean SP). Julia's team performances would have won or placed silver in the individual event, and you're criticizing Osmond for being unable to beat that... on Sochi ice?!

    Pretty delusional of you to think that you actually believe Canada had a shot at gold once we saw how the judges were marking Russian skaters -- I mean, look at the judging of the men's team FS with Plushenko (1 quad, 5 triples) placing ahead of Reynolds (3 quads, 4 triples) and even Machida (1 quad, 7 triples). Julia also had her flutz in the team SP not called, and massive PCS, keeping her above Kostner. Don't be blaming Osmond for something that Canada was slated to lose from the get-go.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I was simply stating Osmond has an Olympic team silver and Gold has an Olympic team bronze. That is a fact. And you do realise that it's merely to poke fun at sky_fly that I bring that FACT up, along with the FACT that Osmond has international wins while Gold does not. Obviously I've acknowledged many times that Gold is the better skater of the two at this point, and has been for some time. But for anyone to deflect Gold's lack of podium finishes by tearing down a skater who actually has international wins and has been injured, is pretty hilarious and that nonsense needs to be shut down.
    an international win ?
    a fraudelent win in home ice SC right, you keep bringing up an Olympic Team event medal, so desperate lol
    its a fact Osmond is anon top 10 Olympian and non Top 10 Worlds finisher

    Gracie this season alone
    win bronze in SC higher than any of Osmond's PB lol
    national title
    4th in Olympics
    and 5th at Worlds

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    an international win ?
    a fraudelent win in home ice SC right, you keep bringing up an Olympic Team event medal, so desperate lol
    its a fact Osmond is anon top 10 Olympian and non Top 10 Worlds finisher
    Gracie this season alone
    win bronze in SC higher than any of Osmond's PB lol
    national title
    4th in Olympics
    and 5th at Worlds
    Nebelhorn is also an international win.

    The thing is, I acknowledge Osmond is inferior to Gracie at this point. I don't get why you keep bringing her up as a way of deflecting the fact that Gracie was a bust at Worlds and Olympics (seeing as how you said she would podium at each event and even threaten for gold ). It would be like if I were from France and were pointing out your criticism and you were like "Well, look how Mae did"; it still doesn't change the fact that your skater didn't even come close to living up to your expectations, so what does another skater doing poorly have to do with it? Although you're the one who thinks Russian human rights are pristine since they're not Uganda, so it's hardly unexpected to see this line of "thinking" coming from you (deflecting the conversation to somebody inferior to avoid criticism of the figure being discussed).

  11. #116
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    How does an MT/M thread of all things become derailed by Gracie debate?

    Back on topic, I'll miss the MT/M D/R rivalry. They pushed each other and few things are more fun in skating than when you have a solid domestic rivalry with skaters or teams that are different but competing for roughly the same placements.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I was simply stating Osmond has an Olympic team silver and Gold has an Olympic team bronze. That is a fact. And you do realise that it's merely to poke fun at sky_fly that I bring that FACT up, along with the FACT that Osmond has international wins while Gold does not. Obviously I've acknowledged many times that Gold is the better skater of the two at this point, and has been for some time. But for anyone to deflect Gold's lack of podium finishes by tearing down a skater who actually has international wins and has been injured, is pretty hilarious and that nonsense needs to be shut down.
    Gold has a JW silver, two GP medals, two US International medals, and a 3rd at the 2013 WTT. Those aren't podium finishes?

    Speaking of nonsense that needs to be shut down, Osmond didn't single-handedly take Team Canada from gold to silver. Firstly, everyone knows women's is Canada's weakest discipline, so that's hardly news that Osmond was the lowest ranking in the team event. But not only was Osmond arguably robbed of 3rd in the SP, you know very well that there's no way in hell Osmond would have beat Julia the way Julia skated in the team event (even if Osmond was perfect - which, as we saw, placed her 5th to Julia's 1st, even with a clean SP). Julia's team performances would have won or placed silver in the individual event, and you're criticizing Osmond for being unable to beat that... on Sochi ice?!
    In addition to Lipnitskaia, even with a clean skate, Osmond lost the Team SP to Kostner, Asada (with a fall on a 3a<<) and Wagner (with a 3f+3t<). She lost the Team FS to Lipnitskaia, Gold, Marchei, and Suzuki (with 3 URs and a DG).

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    How does an MT/M thread of all things become derailed by Gracie debate?

    Back on topic, I'll miss the MT/M D/R rivalry. They pushed each other and few things are more fun in skating than when you have a solid domestic rivalry with skaters or teams that are different but competing for roughly the same placements.
    I agree. Neither skater/pair of skaters will get too cozy with the top spot but must really strive for it.

    Also, I love the feeling that there are several North American pairs who are international contenders, and certainly the U.S. isn't providing any such pairs at the moment. In the most recent Worlds, not a single U.S. pair ranked in the top ten...and the roster was depleted by the fact that several top Olympians stayed home. I'm really sorry that MT/M are not continuing, considering how well they've been doing.

  14. #119
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    IMO, the pressure of MT/M on their heels at international comps made D/R more competitive. They might slip a bit without it, as there is currently no Canadian pair team that can offer D/R any competition.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I agree. Neither skater/pair of skaters will get too cozy with the top spot but must really strive for it.

    Also, I love the feeling that there are several North American pairs who are international contenders, and certainly the U.S. isn't providing any such pairs at the moment. In the most recent Worlds, not a single U.S. pair ranked in the top ten...and the roster was depleted by the fact that several top Olympians stayed home. I'm really sorry that MT/M are not continuing, considering how well they've been doing.

    I also get more excited when North America is strong and if MT/M are gone, that will be a big hit for sure. I am more optimistic about this quad for the US pairs though I don't think they'll be challenging for the World podium soon. C/S skated very well in Sochi and did place in the top 10. Had they skated the same in Japan, they would have been 7th or 8th. The Worlds field was not all that depleted- you had 2 medalists, both Canadians and 2 strong Chinese pairs. Unfortunately, they had a big SP error that seemed to suck the life out of them for the FS but I think the judges respect them after 4 solid Sochi skates and will reward them when they skate well. The fact that their mess of a FS scored higher than their clean one is 2013 speaks to that.

    I actually think Canadian pairs if you take MT/M out of the equation is in worse shape. Yes, they have D/R but really no one below them as Kirsten's new partnership is no guarantee. The US at least has some promising teams in K/O, D/F, S/K and maybe Z/B will get some Olympian confidence/PCS bump next season.

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