04-29-2014, 03:33 PM
Firstly I was referring to the lack of podium finishes at worlds and Sochi which is what sky_fly overhyped and then when she is called out for it she deflects the conversation to "oh well at least she's not Osmond".
Originally Posted by chuckm
Secondly, Osmond should have come 3rd in the team SP. But that's besides the point... She didnt cause (although she was one reason for) to Canada's loss of gold because even if she skated clean at her best she wasn't going to beat Lipnitskaia (and probably not Gold's FS either), so her coming 5th in the Team FS wouldn't have made a difference. Just like it wouldn't have mattered if Gold beat Julia or came last. The points were separated by such a margin (and kudos still goes to Russia for skating well, even if some placements were higher than deserved in the team event), that it wouldn't have mattered how Osmond did. The best she was getting in the SP was 5th (evidently) and the best she could have done in the FS is probably 3rd given how Lip and Gold skated. So it wasn't her single-handed fault Canada lost gold.
Blaming Osmond for Canada's lack of gold is like blaming Castelli/Shnapir for USA's lack of silver. Obviously they were both that countries' weakest discipline. Russia was strong in all four disciplines and benefited from higher placements for Lip in the SP and Plu in the FS -- the gold was theirs. Canada was 2nd in ice dance, pairs, and essentially men's, so they were gonna get silver at best no matter how Osmond skated (knowing Osmond wouldn't have placed 1st or 2nd in either segment given how Lip/Kostner and Lip/Gold skated).
04-29-2014, 04:04 PM
To do a rough breakdown:
Originally Posted by anyanka
1. She should have won the Olympic gold and not Witt (arguably right, and she didnt hash on it as much as some other things so this is acceptable)
2. There were supposably a bunch of shenighans at the 88 worlds and alot of misinformation given by her:
a) She really won the figures since she had placings 1-1-2 and Witt 2-2-1 and officials cheated based on the placements the judges had already given to give Witt credit for 1st place in the figures and her 2nd. However this is incorrect as by then the scores by each individual judge from each figure were added to come up with a cummulative final figures result, it was not adding up the placement of each figure.
b) Her short program not starting right on the short was a purposely sabotage. A pretty classless suggestion.
c) She won the long program at worlds, and skated a better long program than Calgary. Both incorrect.
3. She would have easily medalled at the 94 Olympics as she was doing jumps hardly anyone could do (completely false, almost every top 15 skater could do all 5 main triples then, and she couldnt ever do the triple flip). She also mentioned Witt was supposed to be a shoo in for the gold medal, which only proves she had watched no amateur skating at all since Calgary. She complains the CSA didnt support her comeback plans, that they wanted to push her aside for Josee, and overall just sounds bitter and judgemental, and accusatory.
4. She was underscored in all pro competitions, unfairly treated by Dick Button, underappreciated by the pro skating world and everyone in it, yada yada.
5. She ripped on Katia Gordeeva and her singles career in the pros after Sergei's death. Perhaps with some justification, but again classless. She made herself out to be this much superior skater, when in fact Katia from 96 onwards landed many more triples than Manley did, which was only the very occasional triple salchow.
6. She aired all the dirty laundry on her coaching relationship with Evelyn Kramer, and also ripped on Caryn Kadavy who was coached by Kramer at the same time for awhile.
7. She complained ad nauseum about her so mean and horrible ex boyfriend Scott gross, who she kept going back to for almost 10 years, but wants everyones pity for anyway.
04-29-2014, 04:22 PM
Elizabeth Manley did an extensive interview recently on CPAC with Catherine Clark where she discussed her struggle with depression, and the fact that she even became suicidal at one point. She said she found it hard to maintain the happy image of Canada's figure skating princess when she was so miserable inside. She found the pressure and expectations in the late 1980's and 1990's to be very difficult to handle when she was struggling with her mental health at the same time.
So with that new information about Manley to consider, it might help explain some of the emotional trauma outlined above.
04-29-2014, 04:28 PM
That is totally it for me. Agree. Agree. Agree.
Originally Posted by chuckm
It also made the Canadian Nationals for pairs really great to watch. I have enjoyed watching the Canadian Nationals for pairs in the last four years way more than the worlds because of that (very friendly but nevertheless intense) rivalry watching my two sentimental favorite teams skate against each other. The best example of how good the skating rivalry got were, imo, their free skates in the 2013 Nationals, where MT/M skated (second last and were) wowser wonderful, and then, as D/R took to the ice to skate last, the camera showed D/R talking to each other before the fs encouraging each other to beat what looked like an unbeatable skate, and then . . . they did! The two teams definitely played off each other and made each other better. MT/M are really going to be missed.
04-29-2014, 04:38 PM
True. L&S are a decent 3rd place pair, but they aren't Top 10 in the World yet, and because of Paige's injuries it isn't known whether they are continuing yet.
Originally Posted by flutzy13
And I agree that Kirsten's new partnership will be an unknown factor because whichever guy she is with will be less-skilled than she is. Only Mervin Tran would come close to her level since he was World bronze medalist once. The other guys being considered haven't even been to a World Championship yet.
04-29-2014, 05:05 PM
You didn't make that distinction in your post. You pointed out Osmond's 2012 wins and "Gold's lack of podium finishes". No mention of the fact that Osmond hasn't podiumed at Worlds and Sochi, either. Gold was 6th at 2013 Worlds, 4th at Sochi and 5th at 2014 Worlds compared to Osmond's respective 8th, 14th and 11th finishes. IMO first place on home ice in a GP doesn't isn't nearly as impressive as a top 6 placement at an ISU/Olympic Championship event.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
04-29-2014, 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by Ryan O
Between that and pangtongfan's post I'm bummed out now. That does suck but I hope she's happy and at peace with herself.
04-29-2014, 05:59 PM
You've hit on a good point about MTM and DR: they pushed each other to do better. They weren't the most creative or dynamic teams, but they both improved in the last quad. MTM were new when they tried out for 2010, and DR weren't even skating together yet. For them to place in top 4 at worlds two years running and 5th/7th at Olympics (plus a team silver) is pretty impressive when no one was talking about them at this time four years ago.
Originally Posted by flutzy13
Any word yet on who Kirsten would skate with? If I've read this correctly she's opted to continue, and Dylan is the one retiring. Have I read this right? I'm going by implication and discussion only but can't source a single article yet on this.
04-29-2014, 06:11 PM
I think that's just speculation at this point, due to her age vs. Dylan's. I'm not sure if there was even confirmation of the split sans the article on the first page, but I haven't combed through nine pages of development (again).
04-29-2014, 06:15 PM
I thought so too. I didn't see one either so I thought I missed an article or two. Thanks Sandpiper!
Originally Posted by Sandpiper
04-29-2014, 06:49 PM
No official statement yet? My fingers are crossed that it is not true.
I always liked this team and I will miss them if they do split.
04-29-2014, 07:59 PM
The comment was that when asked about Gold's lack of podium finishes (and since it was directed at sky_fly and given that I'm obviously aware Gold medaled at SC and the US Classic, WTT and Nationals obviously I was referring to her Sochi and Saitama individual performances). The point was that she goes after Osmond for some reason to divert from the fact that she wayyy overhyped Gold and Gold failed to meet those expectations by a long shot, and now she's trying to make it seem like Gold's 4th place at Sochi (11 points behind bronze no less) and 5th place in Saitama are impressive results. While I agree that they are (if we disregard the super hype predictions) she then has the gall to diss D/R as a deplorable team, even though they have two World bronzes. She even has the hilariousness to bash D/R for not winning a GPF medal while Sui/Han and Baz/Lar did, even though those two teams have no World medal, let alone two. So before you come after me, maybe read the thread and get your context straight. I've said as well that I personally like MT/M more as a team but respect D/R's difficulty and calling them deplorable and saying they should split up, when they just won the past two World bronzes, in itself is a deplorable attitude. '
Originally Posted by chuckm
Although given the level of class of said poster wouldn't even achieve a Level B, it's hardly unexpected to see those types of asinine, spite-filled comments, which aren't even substantiated other than being a typical, hypocritical, anti-Canadian sentiment.
04-29-2014, 09:16 PM
I don't think there's been an official statement yet or we would have seen it posted by now.
Originally Posted by demarinis5
However, some people are pointing out that the absence of a denial of the split may be a kind of confirmation in itself.
04-30-2014, 02:27 PM
Press Release - Skate Canada on MTM Split
Canadian Pair Team of Moore-Towers and Moscovitch end skating partnership
OTTAWA, ON: After reaching the pinnacle of their career with an Olympic silver medal, the pair team of Kirsten Moore-Towers and Dylan Moscovitch has decided to go in different directions. Moore-Towers, 21, of St. Catharines, Ont. and Moscovitch, 29, of Toronto, Ont. teamed up in 2009, and competed at their first Canadian championship together in 2010, earning a 5th place finish.
They went on to become Canadian champions in 2011, and have won the national silver medal the last two years. On the international stage, they won multiple medals on the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating circuit, and qualified for the ISU Grand Prix Final three times. In 2013 and 2014 they finished just off the medal podium at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships, with fourth-place finishes both years. This past February, they were on the silver-medal winning team in the inaugural figure skating team event at the Olympic Winter Games in Sochi, Russia. They also turned in tremendous performances in their individual event, finishing the highest of the three Canadian teams with a fifth-place finish. The pair has trained under coaches Kristy Wirtz and Kris Wirtz at the Kitchener-Waterloo Skating Club for the last five years.
“I’m so proud of what Dylan and I achieved in our five years together, and I do want to thank him for everything we accomplished. We are just at different points in our lives right now,” said Kirsten Moore-Towers. “I feel that there is an opportunity for me to keep skating for at least one, maybe two, more Olympic cycles, so I want to pursue those options. My plan is to look for the partner who will share in that dream.”
“It was such an honour to represent Canada on the world and Olympic stage. Being a part of the silver-medal winning team in Sochi is the most memorable moment of my career to this point. And I’m glad that Kirsten and I accomplished that together. I wish her the best of luck going forward,” said Dylan Moscovitch. “My future includes embracing new opportunities within the sport that I love, finding a new partner and competing in the 2014-2015 season, and expanding my horizons for life after skating.
He added, “I also want to thank Kris and Kristy Wirtz for their continued support, expertise and love for over a decade.”
** note I had to edit this because I didn't highlight Dylan's quote. **
And ... discuss.
04-30-2014, 02:35 PM
I REALLY like her, but to be honest her comments sound a little disingenuous to me. He clearly wants to keep skating for another Olympic cycle. I base this on his Sochi interviews but also on the fact that he is seeking a new partner- he would not be seeking a new partner with the thought of not going for another cycle, I don't think. She is right she might be able to go for 2 cycles, but finding another younger partner now doesn't guarantee she will be able to or that the new partner will want to. Also, honestly, I don't think she and a new partner are likely to achieve the results she and Dylan did anytime soon, though if she truly is in it for the long haul (AND the new partner is too) who knows what can happen.
Ah well either way I wish them both luck, I just wish it could be together.