# Thread: ISU Communication 1861: Updated Rules for Singles and Pairs Skating

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## ISU Communication 1861: Updated Rules for Singles and Pairs Skating

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I'm only going to say one thing to the skaters. There is going to be ALOT of pain this season if you want to get the levels.

http://static.isu.org/media/143595/1...oe_2014-15.pdf

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Anyone care to condense the main changes and what they might mean for pairs and singles in this new season?

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Lets try and condense.
In terms of the Scale of values, there is no change to the amount of points each element is worth or it's GOE, they have clarified what the Base Value is when there is a 30% (70% Of the base value is credited) deduction or a 50% deduction in Base Value.

There will be Deductions in Base Value for Jumps AND SPINS from next season onwards.
These chamges to jumps and spins applies to singles and pairs skating (pairs however do not need to worry about point one under spins).

Jumps/Side by side jumps

1. The 'single downgrade' (>) indicates that 30% of the base value is being taken off for under rotation. An 'e' or am '!' indicates an edge call or error and indicsted that 30% of the base value is being taken off. If you want to think about this another way, the skater still gets 70% credit in the base value.
2. If there is a > and an edge call there is a 50% deduction from the base value.
3. Multiple mistakes on a jump can lead to a 'double downgrade' (>>). This would mean that the jump's base value would be reduced by one revolution. E.g. The base value of a 4T with >> would only be worth the base value of a 3T etc.

Spins/Solo Spins in Pairs
Look out for base value deductions for spins this season. Skaters do not meet the obligation for a spin, may face having an 's' or an 'ss' written next to their spin.
For each individual spin that a skater must complete (3 in the short program and 3 in the free skate, there are requirements to meet in terms of positions.

1) For flying spins of both Short Program and Free Skating:
a) a clear visible jump;
b) basic landing position reached within the first 2 revs;
c) held fr two revs after the landing.

2) For any spin with change of foot: at least one basic position on each foot.

3) For spin combinations with change of foot: all 3 basic positions.

If you dont meet all requrements for one of the spins (e.g. In your flying spins, if there is no clear visible jump) for that flying spin element there would be an 's' written next to the element, indicating a 30% deduction from the base value.
If there are you then either did not meet another requirement for the flying spin, the base value for that element will be reduced to 50% and have 'ss' marked next to it.

In the pair combination spin if there pair do not meet the requirement of both partners being in 3 basic positions in the pair spin there would an 'a' next to the element, indicating a 30% deduction from the base value.

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-- "Take-off edge in F/Lz: signs “e” and “!” indicate an error. The base value of the jump with a sign “e” is approximately 70% of the original base value" --

Is this new penalty?! Or are they referring to the GOE penalty?

It sounds new and it looks to be a huge penalty for flutzing/lipping. Glad to see the change if it is indeed a new change. Although I'd like to see a flutz (3rd flip) invalidated as an element, dropping the base value to near a 2A is OK too, I guess.

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I don't think there will be much difference for higher ranked skaters because the callers will be cautious about giving "e" than before. Most of them will receive "!". The one who never able to avoid "e" is Kanako Murakami. Hopefully Miyahara will be treated as the #1 from the season's start.

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Originally Posted by NMURA
I don't think there will be much difference for higher ranked skaters because the callers will be cautious about giving "e" than before. Most of them will receive "!". The one who never able to avoid "e" is Kanako Murakami. Hopefully Miyahara will be treated as the #1 from the season's start.
I think it will depend on the severity of the flutz/lip. I think skaters like Mao and Gracie will not be able to avoid edge calls on their flutz/lip respectively. I think Yulia/Adelina might get away with just a (!). However, the (!) call will most likely limit the amount of GOE they receive, which I am more OK with, than just giving +2 GOE on clear flutz like during last season.

This is what they say..

Final GOE must be negative:
Severe wrong edge take off F/Lz (sign “e”) -2 to -3

Final GOE must account for these, but can be positive still:
Unclear wrong edge take off F/Lz (sign “!”) -1 to -2
Unclear wrong edge take off F/Lz (no sign) -1

So as long as the tech panel is more attentive..

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Originally Posted by jkun
-- "Take-off edge in F/Lz: signs “e” and “!” indicate an error. The base value of the jump with a sign “e” is approximately 70% of the original base value" --

Is this new penalty?! Or are they referring to the GOE penalty?

It sounds new and it looks to be a huge penalty for flutzing/lipping. Glad to see the change if it is indeed a new change. Although I'd like to see a flutz (3rd flip) invalidated as an element, dropping the base value to near a 2A is OK too, I guess.
It's new and it only drops to a 2A value if your flutz and under-rotate. If you just flutz, it's the equivalent of a salchow with probably negative GOE.

How this shakes out is going to depend on the tech panel. How often is (e) vs (!) going to be used? My biggest fear is that the favorited skater's with either remain uncalled as they are now or just receive the (!) with minimal GOE deductions, also like now, whereas the unfavored will get absolutely destroyed by the tech panel with (e) calls.

The deduction for (e) is pretty severe, I hope it's only saved for severe flutz/lippers - like the kind where the jump is not even in the ballpark of correct.

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They are giving more deductions for wrong edge lutz and flip. Could be good news for Lipnitskaia. Her edge is not that bad, probably judges only going to give ''!'' sign. Almost all skaters will got ''e'' for either lutz or flip so this could be a advantage for her.

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Is anyone taking notice that there are now spin deductions!

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Interesting to see the changes. Apparently the ISU will be reconsidering whether to call flip/Lutz by takeoff edge rather than intent in 2016-2017. For the next two seasons, however, they will be going by intent.

Originally Posted by jkun
I think it will depend on the severity of the flutz/lip. I think skaters like Mao and Gracie will not be able to avoid edge calls on their flutz/lip respectively. I think Yulia/Adelina might get away with just a (!). However, the (!) call will most likely limit the amount of GOE they receive, which I am more OK with, than just giving +2 GOE on clear flutz like during last season.
Mao (if she bothers to continue) is an 'e' as is Kanako. Yulia is a '!' skater, but how is Adelina anything but an 'e' ??!! Her flutz is almost as bad as Mao's. I think the panels may not hesitate to hand out '!' but they might be a little lenient on a full 'e' reduction.

Originally Posted by GF2445
Is anyone taking notice that there are now spin deductions!
Yes. Tech panels worldwide will soon be able to realize their dream of downgrading ALL of Kanako's elements!

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Adelina, Mao, Kanako probably will get ''e'' while Julia get ''!''.

I hope Sotnikova try that 4T in future. She have a reason now.

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Lets see, there are more features to get levels now for spins including difficult entrance or difficult change of position without chamge of foot.
More body parts to consider when they talk about body movement in step sequences.

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Originally Posted by elif
Adelina, Mao, Kanako probably will get ''e'' while Julia get ''!''. I hope Sotnikova try that 4T in future. She have a reason now.
I hope she tries 4Lz! That way, if she gets 'e' (which of course she will) and < (which is not guaranteed), she will still have 6.8 BV, 0.8 more than a 3Lz! I can just see the posts now... "Yes 4Lz is very impressive, but a 4Lz< 'e' is not impressive and is just a cheating way to make up for lack of 3Lz! Dirty cheating Russian money, can you please stop to tell a lie A?"

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Originally Posted by caelum
It's new and it only drops to a 2A value if your flutz and under-rotate. If you just flutz, it's the equivalent of a salchow with probably negative GOE.
Yep. Sorry, I overestimated the penalty. I think I will be fine with slight flutz getting (!) and severe flutz like Mao, Murakami getting (e).

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Interesting to see the changes. Apparently the ISU will be reconsidering whether to call flip/Lutz by takeoff edge rather than intent in 2016-2017. For the next two seasons, however, they will be going by intent.

Mao (if she bothers to continue) is an 'e' as is Kanako. Yulia is a '!' skater, but how is Adelina anything but an 'e' ??!! Her flutz is almost as bad as Mao's. I think the panels may not hesitate to hand out '!' but they might be a little lenient on a full 'e' reduction.

Yes. Tech panels worldwide will soon be able to realize their dream of downgrading ALL of Kanako's elements!
I think Adelina's flutz.. I mean it looks like she tries a little to get the correct edge. Also she does difficult transitions in front of the lutz so I guess it's a little less harsh. Mao's flutz.. she's not even trying to get the correct edge, it is very severe inside edge. I think it is furthered by her flip technique which also utilizes and almost extreme inside edge (to the point where it's not really aesthetically pleasing).

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