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Thread: ISU Communication 1861: Updated Rules for Singles and Pairs Skating

  1. #76
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Terrible scale of values and step sequence rules still.

    The spin rules are slightly improved but it's still all about twisted positions rather than more important qualities.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Talked to her this morning. Said travelling inside threes into back entry spin (with no foot down) would classify as difficult entry and after my lesson, I DEFINITELY agree - whew, hard to get power on that. I guess it can only go up. However, she also said travelling outside threes and step down to back camel would NOT classify.
    What about traveling outside threes into forward camel (no step down)?

    The other suggestion I have heard was a (back outside) spiral into that back camel or hydroblade directly to sit spin.
    I'd like to see more of these.

    That "at least one basic position on each foot" (or basic position must be achieved in solo spin) is going to be tough on a lot of the spins we've been seeing because some people have been going straight to variations (think Wagner's FSSp) and on some CCoSp's one foot never sees a BASIC position trying to achieve every difficult position to get levels!
    As I understand, in this context, "basic position" doesn't mean no variations -- it just means "not an intermediate position."

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Here's the weird thing though, isn't even an upright scratch spin considered a basic position, so a forward camel to forward sit and then a back scratch spin would be considered a legit CoSp.
    CCoSp, if there's a change of foot.
    Yes, I think it always was and still would be. However if the only position on the backspin were an intermediate position (e.g., half-sit), then it would not count.

    I mean, do they mean at least one camel/sit has to be on each foot?
    Surely not. But the possible level would be limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveFigures View Post
    The change of edge back sit spin was removed as a feature mainly because it has always been regarded as bad technique. When skaters learn the back sit spin they automatically spin on the inside edge, and this is something all coaches correct. A back sit spin on the inside edge is not particularly difficult, and in all honesty neither is the backward entry into a camel position. These rules are after all made for the senior and junior levels.
    True. However, it's not clear how this will or should affect skaters at middle levels who are good but not exceptional spinners, or exceptional spinners at lower levels that use IJS. Should they be working on senior-level difficult variations and include them as soon as they can get credit? Should they be working on the simplest spins since they're not going to get level 3 or 4 anyway and aim to improve the GOEs instead? Or (especially for juveniles, for example), sacrifice GOE to attempt non-difficult variations that won't raise the level now but serve as precursors to skills they'll need for higher levels in the future?

  3. #78
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    maybe we can get Khan Academy to do a video on the new rules?

  4. #79
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    Alexander Lakernik's interview ahead of ISU Congress. He goes in depth about the proposed changes and so on. I like his jabs and shade he throws at Yuna bots throughout LOL:

    http://mosfigurist.ru/?p=1230

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Also noticed that three illusions is no longer a feature, so that is probably going to count as a difficult transition between positions (camel to illusion to sit spin). After a fellow adult skater tore her hamstring pretty bad working on the three illusions, I abandoned working on that...
    Where did you see it was no longer a feature ? And i agree it should count for a difficult camel or something like that, not for intermediate.


    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    True. However, it's not clear how this will or should affect skaters at middle levels who are good but not exceptional spinners, or exceptional spinners at lower levels that use IJS. Should they be working on senior-level difficult variations and include them as soon as they can get credit? Should they be working on the simplest spins since they're not going to get level 3 or 4 anyway and aim to improve the GOEs instead? Or (especially for juveniles, for example), sacrifice GOE to attempt non-difficult variations that won't raise the level now but serve as precursors to skills they'll need for higher levels in the future?
    I assume you must be talking about juvenile in USA. In Canada, and i have to share my surprise, new rules are (pre-juvenile and juvenile) that variations of positions and other features are not allowed in the flying spin, and in the combo spin... It is only allowed in the third spin (that is of any nature). At first i tought it was just stupid become it limited the time they would spend working on these features to be able to get the levels later (prenovice, novice, etc.). But now i don't know what to think, because before being able to do it, you need to have strong basic positions. For example, two years ago, i had fcsp1, fccospB and ccosp2. Now i have fssp4 fccosp4 ccosp4, but thing is i already had strong basic positions and a good instinct for spins. Do think it will help these kids or that it will compromise their improvement ? I really don't know.

  6. #81
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    The comment above that a back entry or COE back sit spin are not particularly hard is what I meant with regard to "when a lot of people (Juniors and Seniors) are getting credit for it, it seemingly comes off the list of possible features".

    When digging through the document we noticed that the three illusions in a row are not specifically called out anymore like it was last season in the list of items that gain features and yet Bielmans are still specifically called out.

    In the US, at the Juvenile level, there are special awards for the kids with the highest spin score for each Region. That is levels+GOEs total score and only 2 spins are allowed in Juvenile now here.

    I would say yes to the travelling forward outside threes to forward camel, but I'd like to see someone strong enough to do that well enough to get enough power for a solid camel spin! There is a much better snap to be had from the inside three turns to the back camel with the free leg to generate enough power to get it to spin.

  7. #82
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    A lot of roller skaters do that going into their camel spin (on a heel at that!), but it's extremely difficult to do forward threes into a camel spin (anyone have any examples?).

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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    When digging through the document we noticed that the three illusions in a row are not specifically called out anymore like it was last season in the list of items that gain features and yet Bielmans are still specifically called out.
    I have to say it was not specifically called out in the list last season :P

    In fact, it was written only in the clarifications that three illusions in a row counted for a non-basic position difficult variation (p.9 of the technical panel handbook), but not in the features list (and first point of the list is : Difficult variations (count as many times as performed with limitations specified below)).

    Also, from what i understand, isn't it doing a Biellmann directly after a layback spin, that is called out in the last point of the features list ? Or is it because the difficult variation itself MUST be after a layback spin ?

  10. #85
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    It may have been on the tech panel handbook last year and not on comm 17whatever the heck it was, we just recall it being pointed out specifically last season and it's not currently.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by FS.Addict View Post
    Also, from what i understand, isn't it doing a Biellmann directly after a layback spin, that is called out in the last point of the features list ? Or is it because the difficult variation itself MUST be after a layback spin ?
    It must be after a layback spin in the short program required layback. It's still a difficult upright variation if performed on its own or in a combination spin without a layback preceding.

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