- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Maybe something like a counter or an outside spread eagle into a forward spin?
ISU Communication 1861: Updated Rules for Singles and Pairs Skating
- Thread starter GF2445
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Maybe something like a counter or an outside spread eagle into a forward spin?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Maybe they are including using an illusion (a single one) in the spin as a transition between positions as a difficult change of position...:think:
hwell:
They've now taken away the ONE thing I can do consistently with back entry.
I'm mad too... I worked hard to learn my back camel entry! 
Oops
! In fact, for the junior and senior skaters, getting the levels in the spins shouldn't be so difficult.But for the skaters who do it for fun and are scored under this system (like in Canada), there will be a lot of suffering hahaha
I'm happy i decided to correct my Lutz technique and to work on my spins two years ago (I have three level 4) even when other skaters and my own coach thought it didn't matter that much. It will finally pay off.
But again, for top skaters, the "e" and "!" thing will surely bring some controversy.
Yeah i think that's the worst thing you could do to skaters like us who do it for fun
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Hah, well, I'm potentially going to compete soon, so I'm working to add levels and features to my spins. Oh well, I guess I can live with the 0.3 points lost. 
The deductions for a simple flutz is not that bad, but for a double flutz, it kinda is (and even more for a triple) ... so it depends on what you do
And for the spins, i thought some features were easy to achieve but ignored. For example, jump within a spin is easy from a back sit but the only one i saw doing it is Ashley Wagner (well the men do it more often, but it's only because they don't do layback spins). Well... maybe it's better this way : ISU won't remove it from the features list, like they did with the back entry, the change of edge in back sit, etc. hahaha
And for the spins, i thought some features were easy to achieve but ignored. For example, jump within a spin is easy from a back sit but the only one i saw doing it is Ashley Wagner (well the men do it more often, but it's only because they don't do layback spins). Well... maybe it's better this way : ISU won't remove it from the features list, like they did with the back entry, the change of edge in back sit, etc. hahaha
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
I exaggerate a little, I do have other features that I can do, but that back camel was my go-to feature (the spin I can nail no matter what).
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
I will ask my TS coach in the morning (since she's finally back from vacation). She will have a different document which clarifies (somewhat) this mud that we (she, my secondary coach, and I) can reference for the new program we are putting together. It's possible there may not be a clarifying document available yet.
Yeah i know what you mean Like the one you can achieve even with tired legs at the hand of the program !
But one thing i like with the new rules is the criterias for the spins.
2) For any spin with change of foot: at least one basic position on each foot.
3) For spin combinations with change of foot: all 3 basic positions.
Sign “s” indicates that one of these 5 requirements was not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign “s” is
approximately 70% of the original base value. Sign “ss” indicates that two or more of the 5 requirements were
not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign ”ss” is approximately 50% of the original base value. Exact
reduced values are indicated in the respective columns
Before, if you didn't do one of these two, they didn't give you the levels 1-4 so you never knew what happened to your levels, if they counted or not.
Now you know but you still don't get the points (at the beginning, we'll loose points but we'll work on it, won't we ?). And junior/senior skaters are not really affected by this, because they spin well.
Like the one you can achieve even with tired legs at the hand of the program !But one thing i like with the new rules is the criterias for the spins.
2) For any spin with change of foot: at least one basic position on each foot.
3) For spin combinations with change of foot: all 3 basic positions.
Sign “s” indicates that one of these 5 requirements was not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign “s” is
approximately 70% of the original base value. Sign “ss” indicates that two or more of the 5 requirements were
not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign ”ss” is approximately 50% of the original base value. Exact
reduced values are indicated in the respective columns
Before, if you didn't do one of these two, they didn't give you the levels 1-4 so you never knew what happened to your levels, if they counted or not.
Now you know but you still don't get the points (at the beginning, we'll loose points but we'll work on it, won't we
?). And junior/senior skaters are not really affected by this, because they spin well.I don't think it's available yet, it's probably too soon... For now i'm okay i'll practice my spins doing three level 4, but knowing what they mean by "Difficult entrance" and "Difficult change of position" maybe i'll be able to simplify these spins (that would be really nice !).
an entry into a spin doing an illusion would be nice (à la Kaetlyn Osmond) !
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Yeah i know what you mean
But one thing i like with the new rules is the criterias for the spins.
2) For any spin with change of foot: at least one basic position on each foot.
3) For spin combinations with change of foot: all 3 basic positions.
Sign “s” indicates that one of these 5 requirements was not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign “s” is
approximately 70% of the original base value. Sign “ss” indicates that two or more of the 5 requirements were
not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign ”ss” is approximately 50% of the original base value. Exact
reduced values are indicated in the respective columns
Before, if you didn't do one of these two, they didn't give you the levels 1-4 so you never knew what happened to your levels, if they counted or not.
Now you know but you still don't get the points (at the beginning, we'll loose points but we'll work on it, won't we
Chances are with a change of foot spin, you would have either camel/sit/upright on both feet anyways, no? For a spin combo with a change of foot, it's nice to see that each skater will have to do all three basic positions, and it's really not that hard a requirement to do anyways (unless you don't get your camel leg high enough or sit low enough).
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Talked to her this morning. Said travelling inside threes into back entry spin (with no foot down) would classify as difficult entry and after my lesson, I DEFINITELY agree - whew, hard to get power on that. I guess it can only go up. However, she also said travelling outside threes and step down to back camel would NOT classify. The other suggestion I have heard was a (back outside) spiral into that back camel or hydroblade directly to sit spin. Also noticed that three illusions is no longer a feature, so that is probably going to count as a difficult transition between positions (camel to illusion to sit spin). After a fellow adult skater tore her hamstring pretty bad working on the three illusions, I abandoned working on that...
That "at least one basic position on each foot" (or basic position must be achieved in solo spin) is going to be tough on a lot of the spins we've been seeing because some people have been going straight to variations (think Wagner's FSSp) and on some CCoSp's one foot never sees a BASIC position trying to achieve every difficult position to get levels!
That "at least one basic position on each foot" (or basic position must be achieved in solo spin) is going to be tough on a lot of the spins we've been seeing because some people have been going straight to variations (think Wagner's FSSp) and on some CCoSp's one foot never sees a BASIC position trying to achieve every difficult position to get levels!
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
To be honest, 3 illusions should count as a difficult variation of a camel (or upright) or whatever, and get a level feature for that skater... it's quite difficult to execute and requires flexibility and control.
Here's the weird thing though, isn't even an upright scratch spin considered a basic position, so a forward camel to forward sit and then a back scratch spin would be considered a legit CoSp. I mean, do they mean at least one camel/sit has to be on each foot?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
That's unfortunate reasoning... there are a number of female skaters getting credit for a Biellmann, and that's sticking around.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
The change of edge back sit spin was removed as a feature mainly because it has always been regarded as bad technique. When skaters learn the back sit spin they automatically spin on the inside edge, and this is something all coaches correct. A back sit spin on the inside edge is not particularly difficult, and in all honesty neither is the backward entry into a camel position. These rules are after all made for the senior and junior levels.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
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Terrible scale of values and step sequence rules still.
The spin rules are slightly improved but it's still all about twisted positions rather than more important qualities.
The spin rules are slightly improved but it's still all about twisted positions rather than more important qualities.
What about traveling outside threes into forward camel (no step down)?
I'd like to see more of these.
As I understand, in this context, "basic position" doesn't mean no variations -- it just means "not an intermediate position."
CCoSp, if there's a change of foot.
Yes, I think it always was and still would be. However if the only position on the backspin were an intermediate position (e.g., half-sit), then it would not count.
Surely not. But the possible level would be limited.
True. However, it's not clear how this will or should affect skaters at middle levels who are good but not exceptional spinners, or exceptional spinners at lower levels that use IJS. Should they be working on senior-level difficult variations and include them as soon as they can get credit? Should they be working on the simplest spins since they're not going to get level 3 or 4 anyway and aim to improve the GOEs instead? Or (especially for juveniles, for example), sacrifice GOE to attempt non-difficult variations that won't raise the level now but serve as precursors to skills they'll need for higher levels in the future?
Alexander Lakernik's interview ahead of ISU Congress. He goes in depth about the proposed changes and so on. I like his jabs and shade he throws at Yuna bots throughout LOL:
http://mosfigurist.ru/?p=1230
http://mosfigurist.ru/?p=1230
Where did you see it was no longer a feature ? And i agree it should count for a difficult camel or something like that, not for intermediate.
I assume you must be talking about juvenile in USA. In Canada, and i have to share my surprise, new rules are (pre-juvenile and juvenile) that variations of positions and other features are not allowed in the flying spin, and in the combo spin... It is only allowed in the third spin (that is of any nature). At first i tought it was just stupid become it limited the time they would spend working on these features to be able to get the levels later (prenovice, novice, etc.). But now i don't know what to think, because before being able to do it, you need to have strong basic positions. For example, two years ago, i had fcsp1, fccospB and ccosp2. Now i have fssp4 fccosp4 ccosp4, but thing is i already had strong basic positions and a good instinct for spins. Do think it will help these kids or that it will compromise their improvement ? I really don't know.
