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Thread: ISU Communication 1861: Updated Rules for Singles and Pairs Skating

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    AS far as I understand from a TS, the threes into back camel is NOT a difficult entry. They may decide to include that as a difficult entry because there would be nothing that fits that description other than various methods of fly.
    Maybe something like a counter or an outside spread eagle into a forward spin?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Maybe they are including using an illusion (a single one) in the spin as a transition between positions as a difficult change of position...

    They've now taken away the ONE thing I can do consistently with back entry. :(
    I'm mad too... I worked hard to learn my back camel entry!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Maybe they are including using an illusion (a single one) in the spin as a transition between positions as a difficult change of position...

    They've now taken away the ONE thing I can do consistently with back entry.
    Oops :P ! In fact, for the junior and senior skaters, getting the levels in the spins shouldn't be so difficult.
    But for the skaters who do it for fun and are scored under this system (like in Canada), there will be a lot of suffering hahaha :P

    I'm happy i decided to correct my Lutz technique and to work on my spins two years ago (I have three level 4) even when other skaters and my own coach thought it didn't matter that much. It will finally pay off.

    But again, for top skaters, the "e" and "!" thing will surely bring some controversy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I'm mad too... I worked hard to learn my back camel entry!
    Yeah i think that's the worst thing you could do to skaters like us who do it for fun :P

  4. #64
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    Hah, well, I'm potentially going to compete soon, so I'm working to add levels and features to my spins. Oh well, I guess I can live with the 0.3 points lost.

  5. #65
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    The deductions for a simple flutz is not that bad, but for a double flutz, it kinda is (and even more for a triple) ... so it depends on what you do :P

    And for the spins, i thought some features were easy to achieve but ignored. For example, jump within a spin is easy from a back sit but the only one i saw doing it is Ashley Wagner (well the men do it more often, but it's only because they don't do layback spins). Well... maybe it's better this way : ISU won't remove it from the features list, like they did with the back entry, the change of edge in back sit, etc. hahaha

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I'm mad too... I worked hard to learn my back camel entry!
    I exaggerate a little, I do have other features that I can do, but that back camel was my go-to feature (the spin I can nail no matter what).

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Maybe something like a counter or an outside spread eagle into a forward spin?
    I will ask my TS coach in the morning (since she's finally back from vacation). She will have a different document which clarifies (somewhat) this mud that we (she, my secondary coach, and I) can reference for the new program we are putting together. It's possible there may not be a clarifying document available yet.

  8. #68
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    Yeah i know what you mean Like the one you can achieve even with tired legs at the hand of the program !

    But one thing i like with the new rules is the criterias for the spins.
    2) For any spin with change of foot: at least one basic position on each foot.
    3) For spin combinations with change of foot: all 3 basic positions.
    Sign “s” indicates that one of these 5 requirements was not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign “s” is
    approximately 70% of the original base value. Sign “ss” indicates that two or more of the 5 requirements were
    not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign ”ss” is approximately 50% of the original base value. Exact
    reduced values are indicated in the respective columns

    Before, if you didn't do one of these two, they didn't give you the levels 1-4 so you never knew what happened to your levels, if they counted or not.
    Now you know but you still don't get the points (at the beginning, we'll loose points but we'll work on it, won't we :D ?). And junior/senior skaters are not really affected by this, because they spin well.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    I will ask my TS coach in the morning (since she's finally back from vacation). She will have a different document which clarifies (somewhat) this mud that we (she, my secondary coach, and I) can reference for the new program we are putting together. It's possible there may not be a clarifying document available yet.
    I don't think it's available yet, it's probably too soon... For now i'm okay i'll practice my spins doing three level 4, but knowing what they mean by "Difficult entrance" and "Difficult change of position" maybe i'll be able to simplify these spins (that would be really nice !).

    an entry into a spin doing an illusion would be nice (à la Kaetlyn Osmond) !

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by FS.Addict View Post
    Yeah i know what you mean Like the one you can achieve even with tired legs at the hand of the program !

    But one thing i like with the new rules is the criterias for the spins.
    2) For any spin with change of foot: at least one basic position on each foot.
    3) For spin combinations with change of foot: all 3 basic positions.
    Sign “s” indicates that one of these 5 requirements was not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign “s” is
    approximately 70% of the original base value. Sign “ss” indicates that two or more of the 5 requirements were
    not fulfilled, the base value of a spin with a sign ”ss” is approximately 50% of the original base value. Exact
    reduced values are indicated in the respective columns

    Before, if you didn't do one of these two, they didn't give you the levels 1-4 so you never knew what happened to your levels, if they counted or not.
    Now you know but you still don't get the points (at the beginning, we'll loose points but we'll work on it, won't we :D ?). And junior/senior skaters are not really affected by this, because they spin well.
    Chances are with a change of foot spin, you would have either camel/sit/upright on both feet anyways, no? For a spin combo with a change of foot, it's nice to see that each skater will have to do all three basic positions, and it's really not that hard a requirement to do anyways (unless you don't get your camel leg high enough or sit low enough).

  11. #71
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    Talked to her this morning. Said travelling inside threes into back entry spin (with no foot down) would classify as difficult entry and after my lesson, I DEFINITELY agree - whew, hard to get power on that. I guess it can only go up. However, she also said travelling outside threes and step down to back camel would NOT classify. The other suggestion I have heard was a (back outside) spiral into that back camel or hydroblade directly to sit spin. Also noticed that three illusions is no longer a feature, so that is probably going to count as a difficult transition between positions (camel to illusion to sit spin). After a fellow adult skater tore her hamstring pretty bad working on the three illusions, I abandoned working on that...

    That "at least one basic position on each foot" (or basic position must be achieved in solo spin) is going to be tough on a lot of the spins we've been seeing because some people have been going straight to variations (think Wagner's FSSp) and on some CCoSp's one foot never sees a BASIC position trying to achieve every difficult position to get levels!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Talked to her this morning. Said travelling inside threes into back entry spin (with no foot down) would classify as difficult entry and after my lesson, I DEFINITELY agree - whew, hard to get power on that. I guess it can only go up. However, she also said travelling outside threes and step down to back camel would NOT classify. The other suggestion I have heard was a (back outside) spiral into that back camel or hydroblade directly to sit spin. Also noticed that three illusions is no longer a feature, so that is probably going to count as a difficult transition between positions (camel to illusion to sit spin). After a fellow adult skater tore her hamstring pretty bad working on the three illusions, I abandoned working on that...

    That "at least one basic position on each foot" (or basic position must be achieved in solo spin) is going to be tough on a lot of the spins we've been seeing because some people have been going straight to variations (think Wagner's FSSp) and on some CCoSp's one foot never sees a BASIC position trying to achieve every difficult position to get levels!
    To be honest, 3 illusions should count as a difficult variation of a camel (or upright) or whatever, and get a level feature for that skater... it's quite difficult to execute and requires flexibility and control.

    Here's the weird thing though, isn't even an upright scratch spin considered a basic position, so a forward camel to forward sit and then a back scratch spin would be considered a legit CoSp. I mean, do they mean at least one camel/sit has to be on each foot?

  13. #73
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    What it seems like is that when there are a number of skaters getting credit for it, it gets dumped. (think COE back sit spin)

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    What it seems like is that when there are a number of skaters getting credit for it, it gets dumped. (think COE back sit spin)
    That's unfortunate reasoning... there are a number of female skaters getting credit for a Biellmann, and that's sticking around.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    What it seems like is that when there are a number of skaters getting credit for it, it gets dumped. (think COE back sit spin)
    The change of edge back sit spin was removed as a feature mainly because it has always been regarded as bad technique. When skaters learn the back sit spin they automatically spin on the inside edge, and this is something all coaches correct. A back sit spin on the inside edge is not particularly difficult, and in all honesty neither is the backward entry into a camel position. These rules are after all made for the senior and junior levels.

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