What went wrong with Mao Asada?

Sam-Skwantch said:

The only element Mao clearly has over Yulia is footwork(SS). i think Yulia presents enough flow and ease of execution to compete with all of Mao's jumps except the 3a. I'm not saying Yulia is better. I'm just saying give credit where credit is due. Yulia is a top 5 skater and will likely be ranked #1 next year. Outside of Mao, tell me who was more deserving when taking the whole of last season into account. I'm sure Ill be bashed as a crazed fan but I honestly believe she earned that silver at Worlds and her place among the elite. Easily one of the hardest workers in the sport. Not your cup of tea...ok. Not deserving...I'm not buying it.

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Mao's artistry is far superior to Yulia's, but the scores have not reflected that. Yulia also has some of the weakest jumps of any of the top ladies. She wins because she's consistent and stays on her feet. A clean Mao should easily beat a clean Yulia. I would even take Mao with a fall over a clean Yulia. Sorry.

Ill agree but Mao with a fall...not sure I'm there yet. Look I love Mao. Mao is more musically in touch too

If we examine GPF Mao, with a fall and nasty two foot hands down step out beat Yulia by 10pts. The cushion is there IMO. No need to fret. Good luck to both if we are blessed enough to see them next season. I too would welcome Mao back with open arms.

Edit: Yulia's 3lz-3t in WC SP was the highest scored element among all ladies this year. Hardly the weakest in the field. Ill agree not the highest but there are many other bullets to consider. Think flow and ease of execution.

I can't get behind the Clean X vs. Clean Y comparisons that don't take into account who is more often clean. Consistency is part of being a good skater.

Mao should have a bit of a cushion, but no one should be running around with multiple-fall cushions Patrick Chan-style. Just my opinion.

Sandpiper said:

Mao should have a bit of a cushion, but no one should be running around with multiple-fall cushions Patrick Chan-style. Just my opinion.

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For whatever reason the mental image I have right now is of Chan skating with sofa cushions strapped to his back and chest.

Vanshilar said:

For whatever reason the mental image I have right now is of Chan skating with sofa cushions strapped to his back and chest.

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Maybe he should borrow Plushy's muscle suit from Sex Bomb?

Sandpiper said:

Maybe he should borrow Plushy's muscle suit from Sex Bomb?

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That was a muscle suit? I need to tell my wife.

Vanshilar said:

That was a muscle suit? I need to tell my wife.

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Oh dear. She thought the muscles were real?

Vanshilar said:

For whatever reason the mental image I have right now is of Chan skating with sofa cushions strapped to his back and chest.

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Don't kill me!

Personally I think the reason they were so harsh with Mao's FS at worlds this season was just a way to conceal the home cooking at Sochi.

Sandpiper said:

Oh dear. She thought the muscles were real?

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Not her.

Um I actually don't see anything wrong with Mao. Part of it is just aging -- she's a different person now than she was back then. Also, I thought the Olympics sort of showed the worst and best side of her -- that she can be inconsistent and can let the nerves get to her, but also that she's able to pull herself together, quiet her inner demons and perform an awesome program. I think it's a shame that she didn't get the highest score in the LP, but I'm a casual viewer and not well-versed in the scoring system so I don't really understand the finagling that judges can do to the scores. My heart just broke seeing her starting to sob up at the end of the LP.

Sorry, I had to chime in even though I'm a lurker all these while. I just feel bad if another earnest discussion about a skater's technical issues is shut down because some people mistake it for 'skater-bashing' etc etc because it happened all too many times.

Alba said:

Mao having flaws it's ok, normal I would say. Mao, "what went wrong?" is ridiculous, IMO.

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'having flaws' indicate something immutable and can't be changed. 'what went wrong' indicates something that can be fixed. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with the title of this thread.

Personally I enjoy reading this thread because there's a lot of technical picking-apart which is interesting. There's nothing to me that alludes to the personal attack on the skater herself - there were people who were commenting on what could possibly be wrong with her techniques and what could be fixed. From a technical standpoint, it's fascinating. I ended up learning a lot too.

Welcome to active posting, OniBan! We are happy to hear your views.

Thanks for the welcome!

I've almost always been taken by the 'emotion-grabbing' aspects of figure skating (the artistry, the performance, the part that's most subjective and quite hard to quantify, really). So having a topic like, where one can objectively pick apart the part that actually quantifiable in this sport, is really interesting to me XD

What went wrong?
- 3 time world champion, Olympic silver medalists, most triple axels landed in history at worlds and olympics, beautiful artistry and spins, memorable footwork sequences, legions of fans including me...nothing went wrong. she's one of the best skaters of her generation.

fallingsk8er said:

What went wrong?
- 3 time world champion, Olympic silver medalists, most triple axels landed in history at worlds and olympics, beautiful artistry and spins, memorable footwork sequences, legions of fans including me...nothing went wrong. she's one of the best skaters of her generation.

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Hmmm, maybe her consistency

nguyenghita said:

Hmmm, maybe her consistency

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She is not more incosistent than her fellow skaters. Also, she was reworking her jumps, which is hard. I love how people talk about her "inconsitency" as if all skaters do well 100% of the time. Kim Yuna and Yulia are not the norm.

2014 olympic gold medalist is he consistent?
Carolina Kostner One the skaters with best technique and skating skills is she consistent all the time?

fallingsk8er said:

What went wrong?
- 3 time world champion, Olympic silver medalists, most triple axels landed in history at worlds and olympics, beautiful artistry and spins, memorable footwork sequences, legions of fans including me...nothing went wrong. she's one of the best skaters of her generation.

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Agree 100%

Minze2001 said:

She is not more incosistent than her fellow skaters. Also, she was reworking her jumps, which is hard. I love how people talk about her "inconsitency" as if all skaters do well 100% of the time. Kim Yuna and Yulia are not the norm.

2014 olympic gold medalist is he consistent?
Carolina Kostner One the skaters with best technique and skating skills is she consistent all the time?

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I think Mao is a bit more inconsistent than most skaters with her level of talent. Not many skaters would win worlds one year, and then not make the podium the next year. i.e. 2008->2009, 2010-> 2011,2012. Yes, she was reworking her jumps... but that doesn't mean she was not inconsistent (so many double negatives!). She has been inconsistent because of her technique, I think. Hanyu is relatively consistent, relatively to the men's field which is often wildly inconsistent.

I think the thread is trying to address the feelings many had with Mao around 2006, when we thought she would dominate the next quadrennial or two. You know, with her two 3-3s, and 3A.

But nevertheless, she has had a fantastic career, nothing-short of amazing.

jkun said:

I think Mao is a bit more inconsistent than most skaters with her level of talent. Not many skaters would win worlds one year, and then not make the podium the next year. i.e. 2008->2009, 2010-> 2011,2012. Yes, she was reworking her jumps... but that doesn't mean she was not inconsistent (so many double negatives!). She has been inconsistent because of her technique, I think.

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Agree 100%

Minze2001 said:

She is not more incosistent than her fellow skaters. Also, she was reworking her jumps, which is hard. I love how people talk about her "inconsitency" as if all skaters do well 100% of the time. Kim Yuna and Yulia are not the norm.

2014 olympic gold medalist is he consistent?
Carolina Kostner One the skaters with best technique and skating skills is she consistent all the time?

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Presently, Mao's jumps to me appear to be as good or better than they have ever been. Earlier, I heard that Mao had issues with increased height and weight coupled with her delayed rotation in the air. I agree with your that the main inconsistency came when she started reworking her jumps because even with the difficulties she still won Worlds convincingly in 2010. I also read on a thread at fs universe that ballerina style skaters with super flexibility like Mao Asada and Sasha Cohen face more difficulty in jumps due to their more delicate hip structure. I don't know if this is true, but if it is Mao has been successful in overcoming it, and even winning when she had to confront it.

I agree with you on most points, but I simply don't see why Yulia is considered to be more consistent than Mao. Mao beat her comfortably at the Grand Prix Final and Worlds, even with many highly suspect tech calls. Probably, the first time I've heard of that a +1.6 from the judges on a triple axel was downgraded to a 0 GOE on a double axel because of a suspect ur call from the tech crew: a loss of more 4 points. This doesn't take into consideration the suspect downgrade on the triple flip / triple loop which docked her another 3 points. Granted, Yulia did beat Mao in the team event at the Olympics, but in the individual event, Mao would have beaten her, if there had been any semblance of fairness in judging.

Mao has consistency and staying power because she is the first and only women from Asia to win 3 world championships and she is tied with Slutskaya with 4 Grand Prix Final championships. Furthermore in the last 80 years, only one woman has had a greater time span between their first and last world championship victory: Michelle Kwan at 7 years, with Mao at 6 years.

Two other recent world champions, Shizuka Arakawa and Miki Ando were more inconsistent than Mao, and Kostner has only won 1 world championship and has been competing much longer than Mao. Kim has won 2 out of the 6 world championships she has entered and Mao has won 3 out of 8. There is also a 4 year difference between Miki Ando's (2007 and 2011) , Yuna Kim's (2009 and 2013) and Mao Asada's (2010 and 2014) last 2 world championship victories. Mao seems to fit the other top world champions in terms of consistency of world championship victories.

Again in my opinion, the anachronistic and provocative wording of the thread, in light of Mao's recent achievements and unjust scoring at least in her LP's, is what has caused Mao supporters to rightfully defend her.

Vanshilar said:

Not her.

Um I actually don't see anything wrong with Mao. Part of it is just aging -- she's a different person now than she was back then. Also, I thought the Olympics sort of showed the worst and best side of her -- that she can be inconsistent and can let the nerves get to her, but also that she's able to pull herself together, quiet her inner demons and perform an awesome program. I think it's a shame that she didn't get the highest score in the LP, but I'm a casual viewer and not well-versed in the scoring system so I don't really understand the finagling that judges can do to the scores. My heart just broke seeing her starting to sob up at the end of the LP.

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All arguments about how Adelina deserved the top score and win over Yuna suddenly go silent when this (Mao's free program) is presented. No explanation except corruption.