What makes a dance program difficult?
- Thread starter zilam98
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
Okay first off I am no expert on the intricacies of dance however there are certain things I know to be important to make a dance 'difficult'
Speed and accuracy of execution - If a couple can get a good balance between the speed and the how accurately and cleanly they execute their dance this adds to the difficulty of the dance. For example one of the criticisms the Israelis had and to some extent still have is that they tend to look ragged and frenetic on the ice with moves looking unfinished because they are skating so fast.
Change of dance holds - how difficult the holds and changes of holds are and how cleanly and confidently they are performed. it shouldn't look like an effort or scramble to change hold.
Dance lifts - to be unique and difficult and again how cleanly and confidently they are performed without breaking the flow of the program. The French couple, Olivier and Isabelle, are examples of a couple who perform difficult lifts that sometimes go right and sometimes go wrong.
Footwork - deep edges, match the music, good synchronisation. An example of difficult step sequence would be Albena and Maxims Baroque OD where they crossed each other throughout. It makes it much more difficult to keep the flow and synchronisation.
Other things to consider - is the program an open or closed program. By that I mean does the couple skate apart a lot. Is there a lot of space between them on the step sequences, twizzle sequences etc. Do they skate mostly side by side and facing the same direction. This is a sign of a very open program and an easier program. For a difficult and more 'closed' program the couple should be close together on the footwork sections of the program. They should have plenty of sections where they skate facing each other and be as close to each other as possible, watch their feet and their body line, are they bent at the waist to give the illusion of skating close together when in reality their feet are quite a distance apart.
There is a whole lot more to consider but for me those are the things that I look for first in order to get a feel for how difficult a dance is by comparison to others.
Speed and accuracy of execution - If a couple can get a good balance between the speed and the how accurately and cleanly they execute their dance this adds to the difficulty of the dance. For example one of the criticisms the Israelis had and to some extent still have is that they tend to look ragged and frenetic on the ice with moves looking unfinished because they are skating so fast.
Change of dance holds - how difficult the holds and changes of holds are and how cleanly and confidently they are performed. it shouldn't look like an effort or scramble to change hold.
Dance lifts - to be unique and difficult and again how cleanly and confidently they are performed without breaking the flow of the program. The French couple, Olivier and Isabelle, are examples of a couple who perform difficult lifts that sometimes go right and sometimes go wrong.
Footwork - deep edges, match the music, good synchronisation. An example of difficult step sequence would be Albena and Maxims Baroque OD where they crossed each other throughout. It makes it much more difficult to keep the flow and synchronisation.
Other things to consider - is the program an open or closed program. By that I mean does the couple skate apart a lot. Is there a lot of space between them on the step sequences, twizzle sequences etc. Do they skate mostly side by side and facing the same direction. This is a sign of a very open program and an easier program. For a difficult and more 'closed' program the couple should be close together on the footwork sections of the program. They should have plenty of sections where they skate facing each other and be as close to each other as possible, watch their feet and their body line, are they bent at the waist to give the illusion of skating close together when in reality their feet are quite a distance apart.
There is a whole lot more to consider but for me those are the things that I look for first in order to get a feel for how difficult a dance is by comparison to others.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
Ouch Dee that really puts me on the spot!!
Okay personally I don't really care for Navka and Kostomorov and based on what I saw at Worlds I think Albena and Maxim had the superior programs in terms of content and choreography and they presented it really well. So had I been judging the event I would have given them the gold.
However Navka and Kostomorov seem to have more of a presence on the ice because she demands your attention and he presents her so well, sort of like Anissina and Peizerat in a way. While I think they were slightly over-marked technically because I didn't think the program was particularly difficult I can understand why they were marked above Albena and Maxim for presentation, it was charismastic music and Navka is charismatic performer. If you didn't like Albena and Maxims music choice then it would have been very difficult to get into and appreciate the program, the music gives the impression of a slow program even though they skated with good speed. On top of which I don't think the light coloured costumes helped, I felt they looked slightly washed out.
Okay personally I don't really care for Navka and Kostomorov and based on what I saw at Worlds I think Albena and Maxim had the superior programs in terms of content and choreography and they presented it really well. So had I been judging the event I would have given them the gold.
However Navka and Kostomorov seem to have more of a presence on the ice because she demands your attention and he presents her so well, sort of like Anissina and Peizerat in a way. While I think they were slightly over-marked technically because I didn't think the program was particularly difficult I can understand why they were marked above Albena and Maxim for presentation, it was charismastic music and Navka is charismatic performer. If you didn't like Albena and Maxims music choice then it would have been very difficult to get into and appreciate the program, the music gives the impression of a slow program even though they skated with good speed. On top of which I don't think the light coloured costumes helped, I felt they looked slightly washed out.
diver chick:
You gave a really good summation as to what judges are looking for in an ice dance program.
I'd like to add that doing the steps and lifts on one foot is also looked at , as it is easier the skate on two feet than one: this is especially in the case of the man. Fusar and M (sp?) : Barbra would always skate on one foot while M would be on two feet and on flats which took a lot away from the team and judges deduct for that. Another team that always skated on two feet was Averbuch and Lobacheva which is why I never highly regarded them.
Watch N&K's feet and you will notice that they skated a lot of their steps on 1 foot and I think one of their lifts K's balanced on one foot.
Also the choice of program is important as well. The overall program has to reach out and grab the judges.
You gave a really good summation as to what judges are looking for in an ice dance program.
I'd like to add that doing the steps and lifts on one foot is also looked at , as it is easier the skate on two feet than one: this is especially in the case of the man. Fusar and M (sp?) : Barbra would always skate on one foot while M would be on two feet and on flats which took a lot away from the team and judges deduct for that. Another team that always skated on two feet was Averbuch and Lobacheva which is why I never highly regarded them.
Watch N&K's feet and you will notice that they skated a lot of their steps on 1 foot and I think one of their lifts K's balanced on one foot.
Also the choice of program is important as well. The overall program has to reach out and grab the judges.
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-143295-160511-36717-0-file,00.pdf
See this ISU communication for the code of points definitions of difficulty in various dance moves. (Careful, it's a pdf.)
The agenda for the 2004 includes proposals to add a fourth level of difficulty for the dance code of points, dependent of course on the CoP system being adopted in the first place.
Obviously the descriptions are not exhaustive and leave out some of the more general qualities diver chick mentioned, but together with her post fills in some of the difficulties in the specific steps being used, etc.
See this ISU communication for the code of points definitions of difficulty in various dance moves. (Careful, it's a pdf.)
The agenda for the 2004 includes proposals to add a fourth level of difficulty for the dance code of points, dependent of course on the CoP system being adopted in the first place.
Obviously the descriptions are not exhaustive and leave out some of the more general qualities diver chick mentioned, but together with her post fills in some of the difficulties in the specific steps being used, etc.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
zilam98:
Diver Chick gave a very good summation of what judges are looking for, but also to add to that list - choreography (difficulty) and timing as well as music also factor in. If a team is not well matched too it shows - they both must be good individual dancers and cover the ice well with great speed (just like pair skaters).
Diver Chick gave a very good summation of what judges are looking for, but also to add to that list - choreography (difficulty) and timing as well as music also factor in. If a team is not well matched too it shows - they both must be good individual dancers and cover the ice well with great speed (just like pair skaters).
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
Yes I agree - I don't think the judges really did appreciate the difficulty of the Bulgarians footwork last season, especially since it was such a well choreographed program and the step sequence fit so perfectly and they kept the speed throughout.
