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Thread: Figure Skating-ISU president must quit before sport dies

  1. #16
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    I preferred the 6.0 system and miss it but you can’t go back. The system that we have now can work without cheaters. Get rid of the cheaters and anonymous judging. Also apply the scores individually. Just because someone can jump doesn’t mean they have great skating skills or actual components that come together to be a good program (choreography).

  2. #17
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    I resent COP only because it pretends to be objective, whereas it's just the same old arbitrary judging layered on top of totally made-up arbitrary point system that pretends to be "objective" (its the dishonesty of this I can't stand). I mean, why is a lutz 6.0 whereas salchow 4.2? You can't make any argument why the values are the way they are, even in relative terms. Since it's all just BS, the figure skating community should embrace it's subjectivity and go with it. I don't have much affections for 6.0 either - but the issue isn't the scoring system anyway. When the organizational structure and agents are corrupt, you can apply any rules you want and it won't make a difference. It's like with all the financial fraudsters. You can apply whatever SEC rules, federal laws etc and someone will find a way to exploit the system and corrupt it. The same goes for the judges. Only until the federations start cracking down on corrupt / idiotic judges or the system is entirely re-worked in really radical ways will we have a "fair" system.

    But yes, make Speedy go away ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Well, the article is about the question, why has the popularity of figure skating taken a nose dive at the very time when shows like Dancing With the Stars have become popular.

    Here is the problem. Suppose I fancy myself to be the world's biggest sports fan. I am looking around for a sport that me and my beer-guzzling friends can go ape over. I know! -- Figure Skating!

    As a pure sport, figure skating will never complete with soccer, baseball, etc., in terms of audience appeal. To succeed, skating must emphasize what makes it different from common sports, not try to mimic them.
    I'd also addd that skating can't even be reduced to a sport in the usual sense because there would be no way to decide who should win in we did that. There no objective measure like number of touchdowns and its not ever comparable to other trick-based, judged sports. Look at snowboarding. I'm pretty sure a clean run with a cab double cork 1440 in a half pipe has never been done by more than 1 guy in any given competition (only like 3-4 people are capable of doing this anyway and only 2 semi-consistently). So, by default, if a guy does this trick - he wins, which is what happened at Sochi. Whereas in figure skating, pretty much all the elite women are doing 3Lz + 3T. And if you've been watching juniors, it seems the uniformity of jump content is only going to continue. How do you decide who should win if everybody is doing the same stuff? Obviously that's where all the artistry stuff comes in, including artistic aspects like musicality, effortlessness, flow on the jumps themselves.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is the problem. Suppose I fancy myself to be the world's biggest sports fan. I am looking around for a sport that me and my beer-guzzling friends can go ape over. I know! -- Figure Skating!
    I love figure skating and have indulged in beer-guzzling on many occasions but putting them together doesn't quite compute for some reason. OTOH, still can't get excited about DWTS, not even for Meryl & Charlie...

    Sandpiper -- completely agree that 6.0 was more audience-friendly but the ordinal system made the actual scores (5.8, 5.9 etc.) irrelevant b/c ultimately the ordinals were all that mattered. That was frustrating. I'm also with you re: increased penalties for falls.

  4. #19
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    I'd say the "actual scores" are meaningless under COP too, considering the crazy inflation that happened in the past few years. (It even goes for TES due to GOEs being more generously awarded now--Lambiel's 4-3-2 in Torino would receive quite a few 3's today, and probably deservedly). Ultimately, I don't really care about who-scored-what as long as the placements are correct.

    My main issue with 6.0 was the weird ordinal flipping that happened sometimes. Hence why I think, if we're to have a holistic scoring system that is the most audience friendly, I'd go with giving everyone two scores out of 10.0 (technical merit + presentation), eliminating highest and lowest score, then getting an average. Again, by no means is this the fairest system, but it's least confusing to the audience. And at least it'll prevent the reigning Olympic champion from skating a program with a choreographed fall.

    Eliminating anonymity will be good for IJS, but because of how difficult it is to understand for the casual viewer, it'll remain confusing. (E.g. under 6.0, you can see a judge gave 5.7/5.8. Under IJS, you'll need to comb through the GOEs and every component score from every judge--that, by itself, makes things less transparent).

  5. #20
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    Btw here is the lead article on ESPN's Olympic Sports section today:

    A Clean Effort

    Cycling's longtime doping offenders may be gone, but new UCI chief Brian Cookson is working to eliminate corruption at every level of the sport.

    http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/...ks-clean-sport
    Figure skating needs leadership that will do the same -- and back it up with sincere efforts and actions, not just words.

    In stark contrast, you have Cinquanta leading the ISU, who says match fixing is a "minor violation" and his right hand man is a convicted cheat as well.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post

    Talk about one sidedness. There was also a swath of positive stories too that came out around the Olympics. Yahoo sports does it again
    Well, yes, it was one-sided, because mostly it was giving Tim Wood's point of view. Every article doesn't have to give both sides of an issue. Wood comes from a specific viewpoint in skating that's contingent on his experiences: he was World Champion twice (1969–70) and hails from an era when skating meant something different. I think we can count him as an informed observer. Yes, he's older (65 years old according to Wiki), but skating fandom is made up of people of all ages. Yes, there's another side to the story. But this is Tim Wood's side. Yahoo wasn't out of line in reporting it.

    But I agree that 6.0 can't be reinstated. There's got to be a way to fix the current system and make it more transparent and more fair.

  7. #22
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Well, yes, it was one-sided, because mostly it was giving Tim Wood's point of view. Every article doesn't have to give both sides of an issue. Wood comes from a specific viewpoint in skating that's contingent on his experiences: he was World Champion twice (1969–70) and hails from an era when skating meant something different. I think we can count him as an informed observer. Yes, he's older (65 years old according to Wiki), but skating fandom is made up of people of all ages. Yes, there's another side to the story. But this is Tim Wood's side. Yahoo wasn't out of line in reporting it.
    I'm just not buying the doom and gloom scenario. That is all. It's very frustrating seeing this beautiful sport being criticized more than anything else. If the reporters spent half the time writing positive stories about the amazing youth coming into form like Yuzuru, maybe the sport could see some growth too. There are plenty of positive angles that can be taken. That is my point. I'm just tired of articles consisting of pure negatives. The Japenese media sell the sport in a positive way and people are eating it up.

    There is a way to make a point about judging issues, especially in a public setting, that draws attention to the positives aspects of the entire sport also, if indeed your intention is to grow it. Maybe he made plenty of nice remarks. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the author is a disgrintled Sochi fan who left out anything positive said. Hence my...Yahoo Sports does it again.

    I mean no disrespect to Mr. Wood and I'm not trying to discredit him at all.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Btw here is the lead article on ESPN's Olympic Sports section today:



    Figure skating needs leadership that will do the same -- and back it up with sincere efforts and actions, not just words.

    In stark contrast, you have Cinquanta leading the ISU, who says match fixing is a "minor violation" and his right hand man is a convicted cheat as well.
    If you eliminate corruption at the every level, that might mean removing Russia from the sport.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I'm just not buying the doom and gloom scenario. That is all. It's very frustrating seeing this beautiful sport being criticized more than anything else. If the reporters spent half the time writing positive stories about the amazing youth coming into form like Yuzuru, maybe the sport could see some growth too. There are plenty of positive angles that can be taken. That is my point. I'm just tired of articles consisting of pure negatives. The Japenese media sell the sport in a positive way and people are eating it up.
    Well, you know... positive things are not generating the same amount number of reads, because it is simply in nature of many ppl that only negative, controversial things can bring you to read, and even comment to make you feel a "specialist"

  10. #25
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    In case you want to know something about Tim Wood and his career, here is a nice interview by Jo Ann Schneider

    Mr. Wood was known as an expert in figures, sort of on the stiff side when it came to free skating. He still holds (and will hold forevermore ) the all-time highest Olympic score in figures.

    Wood also has the all-time Olympic "wuzrobbed" story:

    I heard you should have won the 1968 Winter Olympics, but there was a clerical error with the scores. Can you tell me what happened?

    The Canadian judge wanted to put me in first, and it was his mark that would make the difference in whether I placed first or second. He put the wrong mark down by accident, and in those days, once the wrong mark was on paper, there was no way a mistake could be changed. I ended up with a silver medal in 1968 instead of gold due to that error.
    http://figureskating.about.com/od/fa...n-Tim-Wood.htm
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-06-2014 at 03:55 PM.

  11. #26
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    If skating turns into Dancing with the Stars you can count me out!!!
    Oh, this is definitely not at all what Tim Wood wants. Or anyone really.

    I didn't like that example in the article but there were plenty of other valid points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    If the reporters spent half the time writing positive stories about the amazing youth coming into form like Yuzuru, maybe the sport could see some growth too. There are plenty of positive angles that can be taken.
    Yuzuru's skating, in his Long Program (and especially at the Olympics), is not something people care about. He is an exact example of many things that are wrong with the sport right now. The system rewards mistakes. The system rewards people for ignoring real choreography and interpretation in favor of meaningless transitions. The system rewards people for doing complicated spins and footwork that have no purpose and are tedious to watch. The system rewards people for throwing as much movement as possible into the programs rather than showcasing steady blade control and awareness of your body and line.

  12. #27
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jump View Post
    If you eliminate corruption at the every level, that might mean removing Russia from the sport.
    I assume you accidentally omitted the word judge and it wasn't some Freudian slip. You meant Russian Judges right. Anything else would be nonsense.

  13. #28
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    It don't feel like the biggest fan of Tim Wood but this caught my attention:


    The ISU did not respond to requests for comment from Reuters.
    How many requests they actually have answered since Sochi?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna K. View Post
    How many requests they actually have answered since Sochi?
    Cinquanta did respond to Phil Hersh that Yuri Balkov only committed a "minor violation" when he tried to rig competitions.

  15. #30
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    true....
    Last edited by fruitbasket; 05-06-2014 at 04:14 PM. Reason: posting by error

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