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Thread: Coaches Who Treat Skaters as People First?

  1. #16
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    I don't know if Baiul and Zmievskaya ever mended their ties, but Baiul lived with her and her daughter for a time, as we all know, Baiul was an orphan with nowhere to go to.
    Last fall, Oksana filed a $170 million lawsuit against Galina, Victor Petrenko, the William Morris agency, the Screen Actor's Guild and a whole big long list of people for stealing her money for the past 20 years. I don't need to know the details of that to decide which side I'm on.

  2. #17
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    OMG! Why do you think so that??
    What do I think what? That he might look as a Nazi? I think might look and be for real are completely different things don't you agree.

    As for Mishin as a coach I respect him a lot and I think he does have that special relationship with Plushenko. What I meant is what Sandpiper said:
    different coaches suit different skaters, and there's no one "perfect" coach

  3. #18
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    The impression I got is that Mishin is rather strict (that's not necessarily bad, of course), especially when you're still a developing skater. Some people thrive under those circumstances; others rebel. And then there's the fact that having two elite skaters in one rink is always trouble, no matter how fair or capable the coach is. No fault of anyone in particular--just the situation and the clash of personalities.
    I 100% agree with this. I had a very good violin teacher. She was fantastic about teaching violin and she was also soft, if I may use that word. I mean not a mom but she would let you do a bit whatever you wanted.
    There was another teacher at our academy and he was really a tough person. Students feared him, even the ones which were not his students like myself. He would humiliate his students if they came unprepared at his lessons. He was also vere tall and big, so he had this figure that could frighten you, and you would never see him smile. I was more afraid of him than my teacher.

    Well, his students loved him and they ALL became very good at playing violin, and despite all his attitude at school, he was the only teacher who was inviting his students at home each sunday for lunch and helping them if they had personal problems. After 4 years with my teacher I changed and went with him because what I nedeed was a strong discipline.

  4. #19
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    I think Richard Gauthier is a great guy for all their students. Dorota and Mariusz Siudek named their son after him. Gauthier had great impact on their personal life. He showed them what celebration of life is.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttermilk View Post
    Last fall, Oksana filed a $170 million lawsuit against Galina, Victor Petrenko, the William Morris agency, the Screen Actor's Guild and a whole big long list of people for stealing her money for the past 20 years. I don't need to know the details of that to decide which side I'm on.
    news yesterday:
    http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s...020494898.html
    google translate
    U.S. court dismissed a lawsuit Baiul fraud by 57 million dollars

    Federal court in New York dismissed the lawsuit Olympic champion Oksana Baiul , claimed that she had lost a large amount of money due to fraud in the 1990s .

    The defendants in the lawsuit were announced 20 individuals and companies , including agents skater who conducted her business , negotiating its participation in ice shows and advertising campaigns.

    As acknowledged by the skater , after coming to the U.S. English language she did not own , and maintenance of its affairs was entrusted to one of the local companies. In 1993-1997, the skater has participated in several projects. In total, according to estimates Baiul , she could have stolen about $ 57 million . Fraud , according to the figure skater , it was found only after in 2011 she has a new manager .

    The court rejected the claim , finding him baseless and "strange" , noting that since the termination of relations with representing the interests of Baiul Agency William Morris Agency, which mainly addressed the claim 11 years have passed , according to " R-Sport ."

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    I 100% agree with this. I had a very good violin teacher. She was fantastic about teaching violin and she was also soft, if I may use that word. I mean not a mom but she would let you do a bit whatever you wanted.
    There was another teacher at our academy and he was really a tough person. Students feared him, even the ones which were not his students like myself. He would humiliate his students if they came unprepared at his lessons. He was also vere tall and big, so he had this figure that could frighten you, and you would never see him smile. I was more afraid of him than my teacher.

    Well, his students loved him and they ALL became very good at playing violin, and despite all his attitude at school, he was the only teacher who was inviting his students at home each sunday for lunch and helping them if they had personal problems. After 4 years with my teacher I changed and went with him because what I nedeed was a strong discipline.
    You make some very good points. Sometimes tough love and discipline are direly needed. I had a variety of people with different styles mold me. Of course, I preferred soft love and cuddling but the truth is I needed to experience all kinds of treatments to really know what's best for me to develop. I truly learned from everyone. Every bit was precious knowledge.

    That being said, I could not accept humiliation as a tactic, even if it is effective. If a person is out of line, however, power plays are unfortunately necessary. It's not good to fill people's hearts with hatred and fear.

    Kori Ade seems to be the ultimate coach - compassionate, yet visionary and disciplined at the same time. Sadly, though, there aren't many coaches out there like her. With Jason as her priority, I don't know if she can spread her "love" to others as much.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Sometimes tough love and discipline are direly needed. I had a variety of people with different styles mold me. Of course, I preferred soft love and cuddling but the truth is I needed to experience all kinds of treatments to really know what's best for me to develop. I truly learned from everyone. Every bit was precious knowledge.
    That's very true. Thanks to my first teacher I always had exellent set up (or is it setting, in italian would be impostazione) of both hands, and she developed the musicality in me. These were her specialities. The second one was a very good technician and as I said tough. So you could say I benefited from both.

    That being said, I could not accept humiliation as a tactic, even if it is effective. If a person is out of line, however, power plays are unfortunately necessary. It's not good to fill people's hearts with hatred and fear.
    It was a different mentality back then. He was unique in this aspect between the musci teaches but not the ballet teachers which were the worse. Tbh we all felt only love and the outmost respect for these teachers though.


    Kori Ade seems to be the ultimate coach - compassionate, yet visionary and disciplined at the same time. Sadly, though, there aren't many coaches out there like her. With Jason as her priority, I don't know if she can spread her "love" to others as much.
    I wonder, how many skaters a coach can follow? I mean seriously follow. I was reading this interview with Barbara Fusar Poli and she said that she can't follow more than 6 or 7 skaters.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    That's very true. Thanks to my first teacher I always had exellent set up (or is it setting, in italian would be impostazione) of both hands, and she developed the musicality in me. These were her specialities. The second one was a very good technician and as I said tough. So you could say I benefited from both.



    It was a different mentality back then. He was unique in this aspect between the musci teaches but not the ballet teachers which were the worse. Tbh we all felt only love and the outmost respect for these teachers though.




    I wonder, how many skaters a coach can follow? I mean seriously follow. I was reading this interview with Barbara Fusar Poli and she said that she can't follow more than 6 or 7 skaters.
    That's a really good question. I don't know how it's even possible to train 2 top elite skaters at the same time, considering a coach would have to spend hours on a student at a time. That's why many coaches have assistant coaches. It depends on the coach's ability to multi-task but I can't imagine taking on too many students. For example, V&M felt D&W were Marina's priority, while the Shibs suffered (however, the Shibs still think Marina is their best choice).

    Kori is making a name for herself, so I don't know how she will be able to maintain Jason as a priority if she accepts others. Before Jason went viral, few knew Kori or took her seriously, so she had the time to take care of him.

  9. #24
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    I don't think it is necessary for a coach to be a parental figure to be a good coach. Coaches are essentially teachers and teachers need boundaries with their students. Honestly, when I have seen teachers fail or even cross lines that ended in criminal charges, it is because they failed to set appropriate boundaries. Kids will come along who need someone to be a parental figure in their lives for whatever reason. I had one student that the counselor and I joked that I was his mother for four years and the counselor was his father--but his parents had checked out of his life. Some students are sensitive and emotionally needy, even with parents at home, and need that approach as well. Others do not respond to that at all. They have parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc...that fill that role in their life and they need something else from their teachers and coaches.

    Michelle clearly responded well to Frank's approach. Her parents were her parents and he was her coach. She didn't need a parent at the rink. Mirai, on the other hand, seems to have the personality type that perhaps needs that extra parental figure--perhaps because her mother had been ill and her family struggles with the bills, who knows? Coaches need to meet their students where they are and I don't think there is one formula for success. The other issue is that a coach should never usurp the parents. Jason's family is clearly comfortable with Kori's approach and their relationship, but not every parent will need or want their child to have an extra parent at the rink.

  10. #25
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    Great to see everyone's input and to hear about other coaches. I certainly understand that discipline and expectations are excellent for any field of endeavor: spoual unit has been a university professor for 40 years and he is certainly no "softie." But staying the course at home and with coaching and parental involvement takes real toughness too.

    I read an interview with Scott Hamilton before the Olympics and he mentioned that he trained away from home at a young age, and then his mother died unexpectedly when he was a teen. He said he wasn't sure if he had done the right thing training away from home. That is a difficult choice to live with, OGM or not.

  11. #26
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    I remember reading somewhere that Nobuo Sato sometimes has to be harder on Mao because Mrs. Sato teases him about treating Mao like a granddaughter.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    I don't think it is necessary for a coach to be a parental figure to be a good coach. Coaches are essentially teachers and teachers need boundaries with their students. Honestly, when I have seen teachers fail or even cross lines that ended in criminal charges, it is because they failed to set appropriate boundaries. Kids will come along who need someone to be a parental figure in their lives for whatever reason. I had one student that the counselor and I joked that I was his mother for four years and the counselor was his father--but his parents had checked out of his life. Some students are sensitive and emotionally needy, even with parents at home, and need that approach as well. Others do not respond to that at all. They have parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc...that fill that role in their life and they need something else from their teachers and coaches.

    Michelle clearly responded well to Frank's approach. Her parents were her parents and he was her coach. She didn't need a parent at the rink. Mirai, on the other hand, seems to have the personality type that perhaps needs that extra parental figure--perhaps because her mother had been ill and her family struggles with the bills, who knows? Coaches need to meet their students where they are and I don't think there is one formula for success. The other issue is that a coach should never usurp the parents. Jason's family is clearly comfortable with Kori's approach and their relationship, but not every parent will need or want their child to have an extra parent at the rink.
    I agree with you here. In Jason and Kori case, it works out well. I met one of Canadian scout for NHL a few years back, and he told me that parents have a bigger role in skating careers (both for hockey and FS) during early years to 12 because they know their kids best, but after that parents need to let go and hand them to their coaches wholeheartly since teenagers tend to has more respect to their coaches (in their fields of sports of course).

  13. #28
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    I'm surprised no one has brought up Yao Bin. He coached the first group of Chinese pairs skaters that really got anywhere, including Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong and Zhang/Zhang. I think he's currently still coaching Peng/Zhang and recently took over Sui/Han. All of his skaters talk about him with awe and respect and affection. He was pretty stoic most days but was caught crying a few times when his students did well. He choreographed a lot of students' early programs and did costume design himself for each program. Shen and Zhao adore him so much they had him name their baby and Zhao is now working as a coach with Yao Bin.


    And regarding less well-known coaches, I just want to take a second to give Li Wei (who coaches Song Nan) some love. 99% of the time he's just pretty stoic, but despite how tough he looks I've never seen him yell at Song Nan and he always seems to be encouraging at competitions. I also just have a soft spot for the rare occasions when coach Li is mothering (e.g. 4cc 2012 when Song Nan had issues breathing because of the elevation) or hugs Nan (e.g. 4cc 2014 after learning Song Nan made the podium).

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