Grace Gold - too princessy? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Grace Gold - too princessy?

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
I think you misunderstood my first comment then because that is precisely what I was saying in my first comment about this.
They can not control that, no matter how hard you can work. Skaters are different and thanks god for that. :)
Each play to their own strength. I loved both Kwan and Irina for example. I don't watch or like just one type of skater.

Oh, no. I understood what you were saying. Loud and clear.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
I'm with Alba on this, to some extent. It's simply much harder (I'll stop short of saying impossible) for someone with Irina's figure to make the same lines as Kwan. For Irina, it'll probably be better to find her own style and play to her own strengths rather than attempting to be a ballerina. This doesn't mean she can't be a good performer--whether she became that is subjective. ;)

Also, this doesn't only apply to girls. Elvis Stojko couldn't skate Alexei Urmanov's programs no matter how hard he tried--and thank God he didn't try, instead going with his own style. Whether you find that style appealing, or whether the judges rewarded that style enough or too much... that's something we can debate.

@Meoima
I think the curves thing is a different matter, at least for skaters. Female skaters tend to have little curves 'cause that's usually the body type that makes better jumps. Simple as that. At least, I don't think lines are just about curves. Proportions matter even more.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I'm with Alba on this, to some extent. It's simply much harder (I'll stop short of saying impossible) for someone with Irina's figure to make the same lines as Kwan. For Irina, it'll probably be better to find her own style and play to her own strengths rather than attempting to be a ballerina. This doesn't mean she can't be a good performer--whether she became that is subjective. ;)

Absolutely, and for me she was great. I honestly hated Bezic, and even Button, when they so often were criticising Irina about that.


Also, this doesn't only apply to girls. Elvis Stojko couldn't skate Alexei Urmanov's programs no matter how hard he tried--and thank God he didn't try, instead going with his own style. Whether you find that style appealing, or whether the judges rewarded that style enough or too much... that's something we can debate.

Fantastic example. I totally forgot about men and you probably brought the best example. Skaters should skate to their own strength.


@Meoima
I think the curves thing is a different matter, at least for skaters. Female skaters tend to have little curves 'cause that's usually the body type that makes better jumps. Simple as that. At least, I don't think lines are just about curves. Proportions matter even more.

No Meoima was speaking about ballerinas in this case, I think. Obviously skaters don't have to be, and should not be, the same. There are some requirments which are similar though, for certain things in skating.
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Not really. Otherwise you would not say that I'm judging the skaters "over something they can't control", when I'm saying the opposite.

Lmao. okay then. Irina may not have not have had the same style or certain body lines, but I feel like she tried. And if somebody thinks that if Irina trying harder would have made it possible, then what does it matter? It doesn't have to be someone's "wild imagination."
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Lmao. okay then. Irina may not have not have had the same style or certain body lines, but I feel like she tried.

Thats what I said. She also improved. So you can LMAO as much as you want.

And if somebody thinks that if Irina trying harder would have made it possible, then what does it matter? It doesn't have to be someone's "wild imagination."

I was being ironic with the user, who was implying that she didn't try harder and that's why she couldn't. Let the other user complain about it, if my comment was offensive towards her/him.

Anyway, whether you like it or not some things are just the way they are. It's not about being politically correct or a matter of opinion here.
Not being a "swan" type it's not a handicap at all, IMO at least, but if you want to see "the swan" in all skaters that's fine with me also. ;)

Cheers.
 

pointyourtoe

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Most people wouldn't say Kwan was balletic either. At peak form she was very slim but also muscular. I still think her skating was at its most beautiful when she was at her thinnest (2001, although in 1997 she seemed to have less broad shoulders and less muscular legs?).

Nowadays Kwan is still extremely fit/muscular but you can see that she looks much bigger now compared to her competitive days. On such a small frame even 5 pounds makes a huge difference.

I remember someone on here once claiming that Kwan had a "stocky" body type even during her youth, which I find hilarious..how could anyone with eyes call this stocky?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYjG2cXkpm8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Owv8PrpA4

You know, Kwan didn't have long legs but I liked that she had some feminine curves
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Thats what I said. She also improved. So you can LMAO as much as you want.



I was being ironic with the user, who was implying that she didn't try harder and that's why she couldn't. Let the other user complain about it, if my comment was offensive towards her/him.

Anyway, whether you like it or not some things are just the way they are. It's not about being politically correct or a matter of opinion here.
Not being a "swan" type it's not a handicap at all, IMO at least, but if you want to see "the swan" in all skaters that's fine with me also. ;)

Cheers.

I've laughed too hard already. You made the comment first about Irina not being capable because of her lack of good body lines. And I don't think I ever stated that Irina was the balletic type. I was just wondering why her body lines weren't considered good. Good body lines = balletic? With that being said, I feel like Irina could have taken Swan Lake and made it her own. It's really not that impossible. But you're the expert. :biggrin:
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Most people wouldn't say Kwan was balletic either. At peak form she was very slim but also muscular. I still think her skating was at its most beautiful when she was at her thinnest (2001, although in 1997 she seemed to have less broad shoulders and less muscular legs?).

Nowadays Kwan is still extremely fit/muscular but you can see that she looks much bigger now compared to her competitive days. On such a small frame even 5 pounds makes a huge difference.

I remember someone on here once claiming that Kwan had a "stocky" body type even during her youth, which I find hilarious..how could anyone with eyes call this stocky?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYjG2cXkpm8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Owv8PrpA4

You know, Kwan didn't have long legs but I liked that she had some feminine curves

I don't think I ever saw Kwan as being balletic. The same goes for Yuna Kim. That's no insult though. They're quite athletic anyway and among the best ever. Then again, I'm not so sure what could be considered balletic. Does it really just mean being slim with hardly any muscle?
 

pointyourtoe

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Then again, I'm not so sure what could be considered balletic.

There's some hardcore ballet fans on here who might be able to shed some light for you, but when I read discussions about it I'm unclear if they're just talking about body type or the skater's movement? Most female skaters certainly have taken ballet lessons or incorporated certain ballet-influenced moves (including Kwan, Kim and Slutskaya) but it doesn't necessarily make them balletic.

I think Polina Edmunds definitely comes across very balletic to me in terms of body type, at least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5j8Sk9nSfU
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
You made the comment first about Irina not being capable because of her lack of good body lines.

Yes, because she does not, so she couldn't be that type of skater. Is that a criticism to you?

And I don't think I ever stated that Irina was the balletic type.

In fact I was not speaking to you about it. You were the one who intervined in a discussion between me and another user.


I was just wondering why her body lines weren't considered good. Good body lines = balletic?

Ans I already answered that, but you simply don't like it.

With that being said, I feel like Irina could have taken Swan Lake and made it her own. It's really not that impossible.

You may feel all you like. As I said this is not about what you or I feel here.

But you're the expert. :biggrin:

From what I'm reading here from you on the subject, certainly.

I've laughed too hard already.

I'm glad for you, and I would suggest you keep doing it. It will not change anything in reality but might make you feel better. ;)
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
There's some hardcore ballet fans on here who might be able to shed some light for you, but when I read discussions about it I'm unclear if they're just talking about body type or the skater's movement? Most female skaters certainly have taken ballet lessons or incorporated certain ballet-influenced moves (including Kwan, Kim and Slutskaya) but it doesn't necessarily make them balletic.

I think Polina Edmunds definitely comes across very balletic to me in terms of body type, at least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5j8Sk9nSfU

Yeah, I saw someone comment about Polina before. Mao Asada also trained in ballet for a few years as a child. I find her to be a graceful skater, but I didn't know if balletic was the proper way to describe it. I do get the feeling it's both body type and movement. I've known some who've found it laughable to describe any skater as such, and they were trained in ballet. I do think now that there is more to ballet than just being thin and moving gracefully. That's usually the image I got before. But they can be tough, too. So perhaps I'm wrong about Michelle and Yuna not being balletic. :laugh:
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Most female skaters certainly have taken ballet lessons or incorporated certain ballet-influenced moves (including Kwan, Kim and Slutskaya) but it doesn't necessarily make them balletic.

No it does not. In fact the original discussion was about body lines. Skaters and Ballerinas are not the same. Good body lines doesn't mean you are a ballet body type. I din't want to use the word, but since others have used that for Kwan previously :)laugh:), I would say a "stocky" body type defenitely can not have good lines no matter how hard she or he (yes, men too) tries.
Meagan Duhamel can't have the same look in terms of lines as Tatiana Volosozhar for example. Maybe this is a better and a simply way to put it, and I hope no one will get offended with that.
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
I'm just gonna say this one thing. I don't think it's possible to intervene in a discussion on a public forum. Drop a conversation if you don't like it.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I'm just gonna say this one thing. I don't think it's possible to intervene in a discussion on a public forum. Drop a conversation if you don't like it.

If you do it with an accusing tone and comments without having a clue of what another user (me in this case) is saying, you drop it if you don't like it, or even better don't start it.
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
If you do it with an accusing tone and comments without having a clue of what another user (me in this case) is saying, you drop it if you don't like it, or even better don't start it.

Accusing tone? I just asked a few questions and it snowballed into this. It's fine though. Conversation dropped. :)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Ashley Wagner is an example of a skater who is not wispy and willowy, but she took on Swan Lake anyway and managed to make it her best program. :yes:
 
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