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Thread: Grace Gold - too princessy?

  1. #211
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointyourtoe View Post
    I remember someone on here once claiming that Kwan had a "stocky" body type even during her youth, which I find hilarious..how could anyone with eyes call this stocky?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYjG2cXkpm8
    Stocky?! Really???

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystallize View Post
    Then again, I'm not so sure what could be considered balletic.
    There's some hardcore ballet fans on here who might be able to shed some light for you, but when I read discussions about it I'm unclear if they're just talking about body type or the skater's movement? Most female skaters certainly have taken ballet lessons or incorporated certain ballet-influenced moves (including Kwan, Kim and Slutskaya) but it doesn't necessarily make them balletic.

    I think Polina Edmunds definitely comes across very balletic to me in terms of body type, at least

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5j8Sk9nSfU

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystallize View Post
    You made the comment first about Irina not being capable because of her lack of good body lines.
    Yes, because she does not, so she couldn't be that type of skater. Is that a criticism to you?

    And I don't think I ever stated that Irina was the balletic type.
    In fact I was not speaking to you about it. You were the one who intervined in a discussion between me and another user.


    I was just wondering why her body lines weren't considered good. Good body lines = balletic?
    Ans I already answered that, but you simply don't like it.

    With that being said, I feel like Irina could have taken Swan Lake and made it her own. It's really not that impossible.
    You may feel all you like. As I said this is not about what you or I feel here.

    But you're the expert.
    From what I'm reading here from you on the subject, certainly.

    I've laughed too hard already.
    I'm glad for you, and I would suggest you keep doing it. It will not change anything in reality but might make you feel better.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointyourtoe View Post
    There's some hardcore ballet fans on here who might be able to shed some light for you, but when I read discussions about it I'm unclear if they're just talking about body type or the skater's movement? Most female skaters certainly have taken ballet lessons or incorporated certain ballet-influenced moves (including Kwan, Kim and Slutskaya) but it doesn't necessarily make them balletic.

    I think Polina Edmunds definitely comes across very balletic to me in terms of body type, at least

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5j8Sk9nSfU
    Yeah, I saw someone comment about Polina before. Mao Asada also trained in ballet for a few years as a child. I find her to be a graceful skater, but I didn't know if balletic was the proper way to describe it. I do get the feeling it's both body type and movement. I've known some who've found it laughable to describe any skater as such, and they were trained in ballet. I do think now that there is more to ballet than just being thin and moving gracefully. That's usually the image I got before. But they can be tough, too. So perhaps I'm wrong about Michelle and Yuna not being balletic.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointyourtoe View Post
    Most female skaters certainly have taken ballet lessons or incorporated certain ballet-influenced moves (including Kwan, Kim and Slutskaya) but it doesn't necessarily make them balletic.
    No it does not. In fact the original discussion was about body lines. Skaters and Ballerinas are not the same. Good body lines doesn't mean you are a ballet body type. I din't want to use the word, but since others have used that for Kwan previously (), I would say a "stocky" body type defenitely can not have good lines no matter how hard she or he (yes, men too) tries.
    Meagan Duhamel can't have the same look in terms of lines as Tatiana Volosozhar for example. Maybe this is a better and a simply way to put it, and I hope no one will get offended with that.

  6. #216
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    I'm just gonna say this one thing. I don't think it's possible to intervene in a discussion on a public forum. Drop a conversation if you don't like it.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystallize View Post
    I'm just gonna say this one thing. I don't think it's possible to intervene in a discussion on a public forum. Drop a conversation if you don't like it.
    If you do it with an accusing tone and comments without having a clue of what another user (me in this case) is saying, you drop it if you don't like it, or even better don't start it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    If you do it with an accusing tone and comments without having a clue of what another user (me in this case) is saying, you drop it if you don't like it, or even better don't start it.
    Accusing tone? I just asked a few questions and it snowballed into this. It's fine though. Conversation dropped.

  9. #219
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    Ashley Wagner is an example of a skater who is not wispy and willowy, but she took on Swan Lake anyway and managed to make it her best program.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Ashley Wagner is an example of a skater who is not wispy and willowy, but she took on Swan Lake anyway and managed to make it her best program.
    That was my most favorite program from her.

  11. #221
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    As for Irina, this program is at the top of my Irina play list.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwI9DOpRlBI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As for Irina, this program is at the top of my Irina play list.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwI9DOpRlBI
    Oh my dear god.


    ...

    I have never seen this before now.






    .....

    I love Irina now but if I had seen this during Salt Lake when I was having a funeral over Michelle's failed flip I would've died a second time.

  13. #223
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    I think this was Irina's homage to the American West (Salt Lake City, you know). When she went on the U.S. Champions on Ice tour, someone told her that the whip was too Cossack, so she changed the prop to a cowboy lariat.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    This is about something which is very objective,
    I think it's the value assigned to different body types or body lines that is not objective. In fact it's quite arbitrary. The idea of what constitutes the most desirable body type has varied over time, even in the world of classical ballet. Look at pictures of renowned ballerinas from the 1880s through the 1930s. Some of those turn of the century ballerinas are downright chunky by today's standards.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by humbaba View Post
    I think it's the value assigned to different body types or body lines that is not objective. In fact it's quite arbitrary. The idea of what constitutes the most desirable body type has varied over time, even in the world of classical ballet. Look at pictures of renowned ballerina from the 1880s through the 1930s. Some of those turn of the century ballerinas are downright chunky by today's standards.
    Yes of course, but we were discussing of what constitute now, or the past 20-30 years.

    Anyway, I was comparing a spiral, or we can take another element which is not a jump, made by say someone like Kwan (or this type of skater) against other types like Irina, Harding or Ito etc., for example. I did an example with the pairs too, and another user did it with men.

    I meant objective, meaning that you can see it, it's tangible. It's not about something you can imagine or feel it.
    Whether these standarts of value are right or wrong that's another matter. People can discuss that forever and most probably not find the right answer.

    As I already said, It's not all about body lines of course. As we all know, someone may have a "perfect" body but can't express the music with the body movements. There was skater in this WC who skated "Firebird" in her SP (wrong choice of music for her, but that's another matter), she was from a Scandinavian country if I'm not mistaken but I can't remember her name.
    She had a yellow dress, blond girl. Well, to make it short she was very pretty and looked very elegant but honestly very poor in her movement.

    There is also a question of style as well, as I already said. So there are many factors, but if you want to dance to a certain type of music or style, body contruction can be a great help.

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