Ashley Wagner and the Olympics

kwanatic · May 20, 2014

^^If Agnes ever gets herself together, she could be right there in the mix. She has great technique and big jumps, nice spins and a great personality and ability to perform. Her inconsistency has been her undoing.

I don't see Christina making it in this field of skaters, which I really hate b/c I like Christina. There's always been something missing from her skating...can't quite put my finger on it. Karen Chen is stuck on the JGP for another season IIRC, but Amber Glenn has the technical content to move up into that top 5 for the US. Other than that, there aren't too many challengers for Ashley which is why I think she has a great shot at maintaining her positioning in the top 3 for at least two years.

R.D. · May 20, 2014

I had a strange feeling back in 2011 (when Wagner was seemingly bottoming out) that 2012 was going to be Wagner's year...at least to win nationals.

I'm not getting that same vibe for 2015 (although it might depend on the moves she makes during the offseason). I just don't see Wagner getting that much better than she already is. In my view, she's gotten as good as she's going to get and I don't see nearly as much room for improvement with her as I see for Gold, Edmunds and even Nagasu.

But - having said that, Wagner's been written off by the masses before. If she remains motivated and healthy, I wouldn't be shocked if she takes advantage of any slip-ups by the favorites next year at Nationals.

^^If Agnes ever gets herself together, she could be right there in the mix.

Has it even been confirmed whether she is continuing or not?? I thought she was running into financial issues and might retire.

CarneAsada · May 20, 2014

Yeah I don't see how Ashley's career has been killed. She did relatively well at both Worlds and in Sochi. I think with her relatively strong, unremarkable showing, she can keep her position as a consistent mediocrity upon whom the US depends to maintain 3 spots. Gracie (and later Polina?) would be the medal-chasers, while Ashley is sort of the best of the others, not the most explosive, but at least not a headcase. Agnes, Gao, Cesario, Mirai all have their fair share of international meltdowns while Ashley restricted hers to Nationals.

If Wagner wants to become a proper medal contender, I think she would need to consistently land 7-triple programs with a rotated 3-3 combination.

concorde · May 20, 2014

I cannot see Ashley sticking around for another 4 years so 2014 was her last chance to go to the Olympics. USFS had the confidence to send her there and she went for it! Given the chance to go, I think most people would go for it!

Eddie Lee · May 20, 2014

I believe Ashley is underscored! Especially, in maturity and artistry. She is a beautiful skater. But...the longer she lingers in the competitive field, the more she is dinged for under rotations and lack of a dependable triple/triple. (Her situation at 2014 Nationals did not help her overall popularity.) As a fan of FS for decades, it seems that even judges become a bit jaded when a skater does not keep up with the latest technical feats. I believe a lady skater must have a 3/3 combo, preferably one of the the more difficult ones. For men (even Jason!), they must have mastered the quad and the triple axel. I do not believe there will be another World's or Olympics where the gold medalists will not have mastered these respective technical "musts", regardless of their artistry and popular appeal!

YLFan · May 20, 2014

I think it saved her career bc it would have been easier to put her out to pasture if she wasn't even able to make the Oympic team with three spots.

I think this discussion mostly arises out of the parity of the US girls. And theres not much on the horizon in the next couple years. So its kinda sink or swim with these three and hope for the best.

Mrs. P · May 20, 2014

sky_fly20 said:
Wagner is on her way down already
she peaked in 2012, I see her retiring next season
will fall to no.3 or 4 in the coming season, she is done

Gracie, Polina and many other talented fresh young girls are better than Wagner

We shall see.

Talent/youth =/= guaranteed success in competition.

breathesgelatin · May 20, 2014

kwanatic said:
Karen Chen is stuck on the JGP for another season IIRC, but Amber Glenn has the technical content to move up into that top 5 for the US.

I believe Amber Glenn must wait another year, too. She will not be 15 until October, and I think the deadline for the 2014-15 Senior Grand Prix is age 15 by July 1, 2014.

fadeevfan · May 20, 2014

I really admire the way Ashley went after her 3-3 this year, even if she didn't master it. Maybe this season of really doing it in every competition will get her closer for next season . . . would be nice if that sort of persistence pays off.

She's not the sparkling, obvious talent of a Yulia or Gracie, but she's grown on me, partly because she's become a much more complete skater. And I respect her hugely for the time she's put into becoming a better skater. If she can keep incrementally improving, I wouldn't count her out of an eventual podium finish at worlds one bit.

flutzy13 · May 20, 2014

Glenn is skating junior internationally but will skate senior at Nationals. I believe she confirmed this in Boston or right after. She is impressive technically from what I saw of her in Boston

Coltrocks12 · May 20, 2014

I guess I am in the minority on here but I have never cared for Ashley Wagner and I had steam coming out of my ears when she was named to the Olympics by the USFSA. Marai is a former champion and was clearly better at Nats than Ashley. She had come in fourth in Vancouver (same as GG in Sochi) and could've had a chance to medal. My heart broke for her watching the exhibition at Nats where she was hysterical (just found out) and even crying hysterically, turned in the prettiest exhibition of the nite. While I have anger and vitriol directed at the USFSA and my opinions about why they would elevate Ashley to the team even though she was crap at Nats and not because she was injured (usual reason for a switch) I don't blame her for accepting her spot on the Olympic team. I don't care for Ashley and was cheering at her low marks at the games. I like GG and Polina and hope that either Marai makes a comeback or that a good young skater emerges. I hope Wags goes pro and doesn't try to stay and free fall in the next quad.

CanadianSkaterGuy · May 20, 2014

fadeevfan said:
I really admire the way Ashley went after her 3-3 this year, even if she didn't master it. Maybe this season of really doing it in every competition will get her closer for next season . . . would be nice if that sort of persistence pays off.

I agree. This was the first season in a few seasons that she brought back her 3-3 (even when her most successful season the year before she didn't go for it). Plus she got her 3-3 with some success; unfortunately it failed her at Olympics and Worlds. But a big reason she made the GPF - instead of certain other skaters - was because of her 3-3 or at least the perceived notion of her upping her game. Come next season, maybe she will be more comfortable with it. After all, Kostner lost her 3-3 for a while and in the Olympic year suddenly had it back again -- and then surprised with a 3F+3T.

karne · May 20, 2014

Coltrocks12 said:
I guess I am in the minority on here but I have never cared for Ashley Wagner and I had steam coming out of my ears when she was named to the Olympics by the USFSA. Marai is a former champion and was clearly better at Nats than Ashley. She had come in fourth in Vancouver (same as GG in Sochi) and could've had a chance to medal. My heart broke for her watching the exhibition at Nats where she was hysterical (just found out) and even crying hysterically, turned in the prettiest exhibition of the nite. While I have anger and vitriol directed at the USFSA and my opinions about why they would elevate Ashley to the team even though she was crap at Nats and not because she was injured (usual reason for a switch) I don't blame her for accepting her spot on the Olympic team. I don't care for Ashley and was cheering at her low marks at the games. I like GG and Polina and hope that either Marai makes a comeback or that a good young skater emerges. I hope Wags goes pro and doesn't try to stay and free fall in the next quad.

Well this is a new one, a Mirai uber who can't even spell her name right.

Ashley had the results to back her up. Mirai didn't. END OF STORY.

And actually, the MOST heartbroken person (and the person with the most right to be) at US Nationals was Max Aaron - whose exhibition was completely ruined by Mirai's.

CanadianSkaterGuy · May 20, 2014

Worthy noting: she did get a personal best at Worlds 2014 in the FS, and with a flawed FS at that. Had her 3F combo been slightly more rotated/cleaner, it would have put her 5th (and possibly even 3rd in the FS).

Bonnie F · May 20, 2014

flutzy13 said:
Not saying it won't happen but at this point, who do you see surpassing her assuming GG and Polina already have? I think the US will now securely have 3 spots for the quad and I just don't see any younger ones making a Polina like rise.

Well, I think Ashley will be one of the top 3 in 2014-15 and maybe in 2015-16. However after that I expect some of the junior and even novice level skaters to have developed and moved up to challenge for world and olympic positions. Remember four years ago Polina was a novice and Gracie a junior who did not even qualify for nationals. If none of the juniors or novice skaters can improve enough to challenge for a podium position by 2016-17 and 2017-18 then the US is in trouble. But really ,when was the last time a US olympic team consisted of female skaters who all were seniors four years earlier (Flatt was a junior and Nagasu a novice in 2005-6, Meissner was an intermediate and E Hughes was a junior in 2001-2, Cohan was a novice and S Hughes a junior in 1997-8, etc). Chances are, based on past history, that at least one or two members of the 2018 Olympic team are currently in the novice or junior ranks. Given that, I think Ashley, of our three current olympians will have the hardest time hanging on, if for no other reason then because she is the oldest and age eventually catches up with all athletes, faster then most would like.

CanadianSkaterGuy · May 20, 2014

Risa said:
Well, I think Ashley will be one of the top 3 in 2014-15 and maybe in 2015-16.

It's not likely to happen, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility depending how the rest of the field skates.

Ashley managed to score around 193 points four times last season.. in both GPs (193.81, 194.37), Olympics (193.20) and Worlds (193.16).

If we take 193 as her "usual" score, that would have won gold at Cup of China and Rostelecom (she won gold at TEB), and would have won silver at Skate Canada and NHK (she won silver at Skate America). So, she's clearly capable of being in the top 2 of in her GP events, or even winning them depending on how others skate.

And you never know.... the top 8 skaters at Worlds this year would have all won GP Cup of China.

Bonnie F · May 20, 2014

I meant top 3 in the US and able to qualify for the world teams, I don't see her ever being top 3 in the world

noskates · May 20, 2014

I think this was probably an inane question. How could Ashley's career be ruined by competing in the Olympic Games. She basically redeemed herself, as far as I'm concerned. Don't count her out. She's very determined.

R.D. · May 20, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
It's not likely to happen, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility depending how the rest of the field skates.

Ashley managed to score around 193 points four times last season.. in both GPs (193.81, 194.37), Olympics (193.20) and Worlds (193.16).

If we take 193 as her "usual" score, that would have won gold at Cup of China and Rostelecom (she won gold at TEB), and would have won silver at Skate Canada and NHK (she won silver at Skate America). So, she's clearly capable of being in the top 2 of in her GP events, or even winning them depending on how others skate.

And you never know.... the top 8 skaters at Worlds this year would have all won GP Cup of China.

But is Wagner content with simply winning GP events...or does she want bigger and greater things, like a medal at Worlds?

No doubt she's had a respectable career, and can continue to have one (assuming she stays healthy)...but I don't get the feeling she's staying in just for more GP golds. It's about taking the next step to achieve the goals she has outlined for herself...and it is pretty clear the status quo won't get her there. So what do you do? She doesn't have the talent to dig into like her top competitors...

Jammers · May 20, 2014

Risa said:
Well, I think Ashley will be one of the top 3 in 2014-15 and maybe in 2015-16. However after that I expect some of the junior and even novice level skaters to have developed and moved up to challenge for world and olympic positions. Remember four years ago Polina was a novice and Gracie a junior who did not even qualify for nationals. If none of the juniors or novice skaters can improve enough to challenge for a podium position by 2016-17 and 2017-18 then the US is in trouble. But really ,when was the last time a US olympic team consisted of female skaters who all were seniors four years earlier (Flatt was a junior and Nagasu a novice in 2005-6, Meissner was an intermediate and E Hughes was a junior in 2001-2, Cohan was a novice and S Hughes a junior in 1997-8, etc). Chances are, based on past history, that at least one or two members of the 2018 Olympic team are currently in the novice or junior ranks. Given that, I think Ashley, of our three current olympians will have the hardest time hanging on, if for no other reason then because she is the oldest and age eventually catches up with all athletes, faster then most would like.

I felt the same way back in 2011 that the US was going to be in bad shape if Rachael Flatt was still the best the US had to offer heading into the Sochi or if she was even still a contender. If no one has challenged or passed up a almost 26 year old Wagner by 2017 it will not be good for US skating.

Ashley Wagner and the Olympics

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

R.D.

CarneAsada

concorde

Eddie Lee

YLFan

Match Penalty

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

breathesgelatin

fadeevfan

flutzy13

Coltrocks12

CanadianSkaterGuy

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

CanadianSkaterGuy

Bonnie F

CanadianSkaterGuy

Bonnie F

noskates

R.D.

Jammers

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