Ashley Wagner and the Olympics | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Ashley Wagner and the Olympics

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Agreed. Mirai did herself no favours with her 4CC performance. As much as I want to defend her saying she was psychologically crushed after being left off the Olympic team, she had a chance to medal at a not very competitive ISU championship and she blew it. If she was so delicate that her mindset was going to make her the worst ranked American at that event (with Gold/Edmunds/Wagner not even there), then she definitely wasn't the right choice for Sochi. She should look at her positives like her GP medal and strong Nationals performance but other than Nationals she was pretty basic compared to Wagner.
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
I think that we cannot say that about Mirai! We don't know what she would have do at Sochi or at Worlds since that she was not there, maybe she would have surprise us by doing great performance. We will never know!

I don't think you want to have to rely on someone to surprise you with a great performance at the Olympics to do well.
 

coolboogie22

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Except that she didn't. She went to Four Continents and put in a truly rubbish showing with a tech panel that was prepared to call her out on her underrotations. And boy oh boy did the forums here explode with excuses for her.

Ashley deserved the Olympics. If Mirai wanted to go, she should have skated better in the lead-up. It's over, it's done with, seriously, GET OVER IT.

So, if you say this, you are agree with me that Mirai and Ashley fail at one competition this season, this does not mean that they are bad skaters, both of them are in the same league to me. Everyone have their up and down and I really think that anything is possible next season the title is difficult to predict both Polina, Gracie, Mirai and Ashley can get the title.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Agreed. Mirai did herself no favours with her 4CC performance. As much as I want to defend her saying she was psychologically crushed after being left off the Olympic team, she had a chance to medal at a not very competitive ISU championship and she blew it. If she was so delicate that her mindset was going to make her the worst ranked American at that event (with Gold/Edmunds/Wagner not even there), then she definitely wasn't the right choice for Sochi. She should look at her positives like her GP medal and strong Nationals performance but other than Nationals she was pretty basic compared to Wagner.

To be fair, I'm not sure if it's a perfect comparison because I believe Mirai was also ill during 4CC. That said, I'm not sure if she would have scored anywhere what Wagner did (127-129) even if she was 100 percent.
 

Bonnie F

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
I think Ashley did a great job for USFSA of "holding down the fort" until the younger and frankly more talented Americans developed and became consistent enough to take over and bring the US back to the point of being metal contenders. I think she is a good skater, a solid work horse type who could be depended on for a solid placement but who did not have a chance to metal on the bigger stages unless others made mistakes. I think she made the most of her talent and had a very good career at a time when US figure skating was not that strong. For that, she in effect saved USFSA by qualifying team USA for three spots in Sochi. I don't think USFSA ever considered leaving her off the Sochi team. I think the last spot came down to Mirai vs Polina with USFSA choosing the future rather than the past (a wise choice I think as Polina gained valuable experience on the front end of her career). I do think if Ashley chooses not to retire she will be surpassed by other skaters fairly quickly. I see one possibly two more world teams for her at most.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
So, if you say this, you are agree with me that Mirai and Ashley fail at one competition this season, this does not mean that they are bad skaters, both of them are in the same league to me. Everyone have their up and down and I really think that anything is possible next season the title is difficult to predict both Polina, Gracie, Mirai and Ashley can get the title.

One bad competition does not make a bad skater, correct.

However, Mirai didn't just have one bad competition, did she? She was woeful the entire quad. Ashley had a very good couple of seasons.
 

flutzy13

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I think Ashley did a great job for USFSA of "holding down the fort" until the younger and frankly more talented Americans developed and became consistent enough to take over and bring the US back to the point of being metal contenders. I think she is a good skater, a solid work horse type who could be depended on for a solid placement but who did not have a chance to metal on the bigger stages unless others made mistakes. I think she made the most of her talent and had a very good career at a time when US figure skating was not that strong. For that, she in effect saved USFSA by qualifying team USA for three spots in Sochi. I don't think USFSA ever considered leaving her off the Sochi team. I think the last spot came down to Mirai vs Polina with USFSA choosing the future rather than the past (a wise choice I think as Polina gained valuable experience on the front end of her career). I do think if Ashley chooses not to retire she will be surpassed by other skaters fairly quickly. I see one possibly two more world teams for her at most.

Not saying it won't happen but at this point, who do you see surpassing her assuming GG and Polina already have? I think the US will now securely have 3 spots for the quad and I just don't see any younger ones making a Polina like rise.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
No the USFS did not kill or save Ashleys career. It was and is a non factor. AShley will destroy or make her career. although Gracie, paulina, mirai and someother american girls may have some say.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I think Ashley did very well in Sochi and at worlds. She put forth solid performances and placed top 10 at both as well as helped earn an Olympic bronze medal.

Like Risa said, Ashley capitalized on the US slump in talent and emerged as the front-runner for the US ladies for two and half years. She found consistency and a style that made people take notice and ended up netting several gold medals on the GP, GPF medals and even a 4CC title. It was clear once Gracie hit the senior scene that Ashley's days were numbered. Once Gracie got herself together even a little bit, she would surpass Ashley.

That's exactly what happened. Ashley still struggles with the tougher elements which puts her at a distinct disadvantage as we head into this new era of ladies' figure skating. Everyone has at least one consistent 3-3 if not two 3-3s, or a 2-3...Ashley struggles to hit the 3-3 and that is what will hurt her the most next season.

She used to have the PCS edge thanks in large part to her ability to put out clean programs; her consistent performances raised her stock with the judges as well as her overall scores. Now, with the success of Julia/Adelina/Gracie, that edge has been erased. I don't find Julia or Gracie to be on the same level as Ashley when it comes to selling a program and grabbing the judges/audience but the scores don't reflect the skating; they reflect the scoring trend for each skater and, at the end of the season, both Julia and Gracie were trending up. Both scored higher PCS than Ashley even with falls at worlds this year. Adelina has always had the goods to score well in PCS; she just had a nasty habit of shooting herself in the foot by making errors. When she beat Ashley in the FS at TEB, her PCS were only 1.16 points off of Ashley's. If the consistency Adelina found at the end of last season continues next season, I'd expect her to be at the top of the PCS earners. Even Anna's PCS shot up at worlds this season, going from 56+ at COC to 64.05 at worlds...Ashley got 65.88. Anna's numbers will go up if she continues to skate well next season.

Ashley has lost her advantage but she can still compete. Julia, Adelina and Gracie can outscore her in both areas now which means it will be much tougher for Ashley to win. Essentially she turns into the Akiko Suzuki of this group: lovely and entertaining skater, but not quite able to keep up technically with the top names. Ashley can continue to have a good career. I think she can earn several more GP medals and national medals...as far as gold medals go, I think those will be harder for her to get b/c she's lower on the pecking order now.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Not saying it won't happen but at this point, who do you see surpassing her assuming GG and Polina already have? I think the US will now securely have 3 spots for the quad and I just don't see any younger ones making a Polina like rise.

There really aren't too many coming up who have the goods to possibly surpass Ashley in the next year or two. I'd throw Karen Chen's name out there (big jumps, great skating skills and spins), as well as Amber Glenn (multiple 3-3s, nice style). The US doesn't have the never ending depth of the Russian ladies but there are a few who could possibly make a splash. There is a lot of talent in the US but it's not talent that can compete at the top level.

As of now and for the next year or two, I'd put Ashley as a solid #3 for the US unless by some miracle Agnes turns a corner or Mirai starts skating like she wants to win something other than nationals every four years.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
^^@Kwanatic

Very well said but if Ashley can skate at least one full event as well as she did her FS at worlds she could and likely should win a gold medal and I think that would be a very heartwarming tale. :popcorn:

I think Ashley deserves high PCS and with a full program of clean tech there is no reason she can't fend of any of the rising talents. I don't think it's crazy to say we'll see her at GPF again.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
She might have been "dumped" a bit for Gracie (although I think Gracie did skate better at the Olympics), but I think she would have been "dumped" even more had she not been put on the Olympic team. One of the reasons for her slipping down a bit is because of the rise of the Russian girls like Adelina, Julia, and Anna, too, especially in Sochi where many felt that Adelina and possibly Julia were overmarked/held up.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
She might have been "dumped" a bit for Gracie (although I think Gracie did skate better at the Olympics), but I think she would have been "dumped" even more had she not been put on the Olympic team. One of the reasons for her slipping down a bit is because of the rise of the Russian girls like Adelina, Julia, and Anna, too, especially in Sochi where many felt that Adelina and possibly Julia were overmarked/held up.

Conversely Lip and Pogo out skated Ashley at Worlds. So held up at Olympics or not Ashley needs to maintain a high level of technical consistency. She lost fair and square to Lip at GPF too due to consistency. She is capable of overcoming it but can she do it? That is the question for me. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ashley as the American #1 going into Worlds. The funny thing is she is such a wild card I wouldn't be surprised either if she is the #3. Same can be said for all the Rissians too. So my final conclusion is simply :popcorn:

I think it's a great time for the sport. It will be more fun having a lot of competitors who have a chance at medals and especially Gold. More interesting for me at least.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
I think Ashley has a good chance of fending off youngsters from her own country and remaining in the USA top 3 (getting back to #1 would be difficult, as Gracie has surpassed her in PCS in the judges' eyes--I don't agree and think Ashley should've placed ahead at Worlds, but it seems to be the reality). So, if Ashley wants to continue to compete, I don't think her chances are too bad. Gracie's rather unpredictable, while Polina is still very young. Too early to judge other girls moving into senior.

The biggest difficulty for Ashley right now, imo, is the Russians crowding the international stage. She used to be able to depend on a few people to fail in order to medal. Now, all the Russians will need to fail for her to climb ahead--and there are a lot of Russians! So, she can continue making the American team and will get sent to events, but I dunno how good her chances of medalling will be.
 

gettinglow

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
No, not particularly. I think Ashley has sort of killed her own career by, well, crumbling under pressure when it counts the most and, unfortunately, by not being among the most talented skaters in the top cohort. She's done well with her gifts, but she just doesn't have the goods to really be among the top three ladies internationally. Her lack of a true 3-3, and the generally clunky nature of her spins and footwork have hurt her. Perhaps even more damaging has been her tendency to really fall apart under real pressure.
 

desertskates

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Conversely Lip and Pogo out skated Ashley at Worlds. So held up at Olympics or not Ashley needs to maintain a high level of technical consistency. She lost fair and square to Lip at GPF too due to consistency. She is capable of overcoming it but can she do it? That is the question for me. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ashley as the American #1 going into Worlds. The funny thing is she is such a wild card I wouldn't be surprised either if she is the #3. Same can be said for all the Rissians too. So my final conclusion is simply :popcorn:

I think it's a great time for the sport. It will be more fun having a lot of competitors who have a chance at medals and especially Gold. More interesting for me at least.

I agree with this and what Kwanatic said on the last page. With the current top 3, anything can happen. And Ashley's 2 medals at the GPF are nothing to sneeze at. It all depends on what each lady bring to the table. Will Ashley do better with and Olympics under her belt and without the need to change programs during the season? Will Gracie find her
"style" and gain consistency? Will Polina have any growth issues or will she just come out and do as well as she did in 13-14? We shall see. :popcorn:
 

flutzy13

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I agree with this and what Kwanatic said on the last page. With the current top 3, anything can happen. And Ashley's 2 medals at the GPF are nothing to sneeze at. It all depends on what each lady bring to the table. Will Ashley do better with and Olympics under her belt and without the need to change programs during the season? Will Gracie find her
"style" and gain consistency? Will Polina have any growth issues or will she just come out and do as well as she did in 13-14? We shall see. :popcorn:

I agree. I think any of Ashley, Gracie or Polina can take Nationals next year depending on the day. Its fun after years of being just desperate to get back the 3rd sport that we now have 3 girls who could win GP events, make the GP final and make the final group at Worlds. I really believe Ashley will be a force next year now that the weight of USFS and public expectations are not squarely on her shoulders. I also believe Polina will continue to be super consistent and lovely and the PCS will go up up up.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
I think we are yet to see the Ashley Wagner we think she is capable of being. :D
Excited for US skating now.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
I agree with this and what Kwanatic said on the last page. With the current top 3, anything can happen. And Ashley's 2 medals at the GPF are nothing to sneeze at. It all depends on what each lady bring to the table. Will Ashley do better with and Olympics under her belt and without the need to change programs during the season? Will Gracie find her
"style" and gain consistency? Will Polina have any growth issues or will she just come out and do as well as she did in 13-14? We shall see. :popcorn:

I really like Polina, so this is not meant as a slam in any way, but there are two big question marks for her. She could still grow; she is so long limbed, that it is possible she will get taller. It also remains to be seen how she will handle being one of the top contenders expected to do well. She came from nowhere at Nationals (yes, I know she won Jrs a year before--I saw her short live...but she was not expected to make the Olympic team at all), and expectations for her at both the Olympics and Worlds were very low. This coming season will be much different in terms of expectations and pressure. I sincerely hope she does well and learns to handle it all. But it will be a new challenge.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I really like Polina, so this is not meant as a slam in any way, but there are two big question marks for her. She could still grow; she is so long limbed, that it is possible she will get taller. It also remains to be seen how she will handle being one of the top contenders expected to do well. She came from nowhere at Nationals (yes, I know she won Jrs a year before--I saw her short live...but she was not expected to make the Olympic team at all), and expectations for her at both the Olympics and Worlds were very low. This coming season will be much different in terms of expectations and pressure. I sincerely hope she does well and learns to handle it all. But it will be a new challenge.


A first senior season is always a big challenge but Polina is coming in slightly ahead of any other debuting seniors next season b/c she's already been to the two biggest senior level events in the sport (Olys, worlds) so that experience will be huge for her. Though she came from "nowhere", I wasn't the least bit shocked to see her do so well at nationals. She'd won both of her JGPs and likely would have won the JGPF if she hadn't made mistakes in her SP.

Polina grew from the JGP to nationals and her jumps seemed to have gotten higher in that time. She's listed at 5'4"/5'5" but I could see her growing to Carolina's height (5'7"). The good thing is she doesn't look like she'd fill out that much. If you look at Carolina at 16 and compare her to Polina, their body types are very similar.

The sucky part about the younger girls is there's always the threat of puberty but I think Polina will be okay, even if she does grow more. Her technique is solid and there are no glaring issues with her basic skating. We'll have to see...

As far as being in the spotlight/expected to win, we'll only know how she deals with that pressure once she's presented with it. The senior level is a completely different ballgame but I honestly think she and all of the newer girls coming in will have an easier time than people like Julia, Adelina, Gracie, etc. had b/c they are coming into a "depleted" field where all of the veterans who reigned over the last quad are absent. The newer veterans get the chance to really shine next season but everyone is so close together in terms of age and skill...if Polina really throws it down, I could see her right there in the mix with the top names.
 
Top