South Korea will attempt to pass 'host nation' automatic qualification through ISU.
- Thread starter GF2445
- Start date
Check the link in the OP. They are not asking to add the numbers. They are asking as Couple number 20 and as Couple nmber 24. I agree with others. These spots should go to the skaters who actually earned them.again.. no one is taking any spot! what's wrong with adding another?
...but Korea is ALSO one of those countries that is not a traditional strong skating in the disciplines being discussed. I have no idea why you claim that a skater from the host country will not have achieved the "same results" as a skater from a non-host country. When it gets to the skaters at the lower placements, they may have different backgrounds/skills, but all have make mistakes and/or have weaknesses that resulted in them being scored and placed much lower than others. The skaters from non-host countries who are fighting for the very last spots are not necessarily starkly superior than skaters from host countries. If they're placing that low, then no, they're not.
And yet, this rule always previously existed?
And are you absolutely certain that there are no benefits from levering people into the Olympics based on host qualification?
Japan did not have a pairs team at the 1997 World Championships. Their ice dance team finished 22nd, 3rd from the bottom of the teams that qualified for the FD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_World_Figure_Skating_Championships
But they had a pairs team compete and an ice dance compete at the 1998 Winter Olympics, which they hosted. The pairs team finished dead last and the ice dance team finished second to last.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_1998_Winter_Olympics
I'm not sure what the other qualifying competition (other than Worlds) for extra spots was during that season and could not find it immediately. Perhaps someone can clarify if Japan did or didn't exercise the host country option in order to get their pairs or ice dance team into the Olympics? Based off of the world results, it looks like they used the host country option.
Know who was on that pairs team?
Marie Arai / Shin Amano
Know who was on the ice dance team?
Aya Kawai / Hiroshi Tanaka
Hiroshi Tanaka and Marie Arai are now coaches according to their Wikipedia bio. Shin Amano is a very well-known technical specialist.
What was that you were saying about there being no benefit to the sport levering people into the Olympics when they haven't really qualified? Don't you think Olympic experience was a positive motivation for those skaters and allowed them to stay in the sport in other roles?
It is so completely laughable that people are NOW claiming that the "original rule was unfair" and "I was glad it was removed" and "it was a positive step to get rid of that rule."
No way. Nobody ever cared about this rule when it existed, it's obvious that few people even knew that it existed and applied to every single host country before, and most outside of Korean skating fans didn't care when it was removed.
No, you don't know that it's the "only way". You can't see into the future. The Korean ice dance team could likely qualify on their own if they keep progressing at the rate they have. And who knows? Maybe a Korean pairs team could surprise us.
So right now, it's just insurance.
Whether or not the rule is actually applied shouldn't matter on whether it should exist. So it's okay for Russia to have been protected by the rule since it didn't actually need it, but it's not okay for Korea to be protected by the rule since it may need it? The arguments in this thread are getting worse and worse.
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- Mar 23, 2010
^did you know some posters are allergic from the fact that it is SOUTH KOREA.. forget about what happened in the past.. forget about what happened in every host nation who had this luxury.. but now after getting rid of it.. it's OK because it is SOUTH KOREA.. come on now.. it's getting obvious why some are against it..
can you imagine if south korea decided instead of an automatic qualifying for the ladies (specifically 1 slot).. i'm sure some will go ape****.. because there's that possibility of their queen to come back..
can you imagine if south korea decided instead of an automatic qualifying for the ladies (specifically 1 slot).. i'm sure some will go ape****.. because there's that possibility of their queen to come back..
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- Dec 29, 2013
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This next Olympics already making for 
^ It's true that I didn't know about this rule long before but had I known I still would've thought it was unfair and would want it to be removed. 
Not alot of people cared because it apparently hadn't been used in a long time hence people not knowing about it. It not like I'm suddenly against it just because Korea's the one requesting it. I would have felt the same whether it was the US, Canada, Japan, etc requesting it.
Lol some people in here are making it seem like all the people who are against reinstating this rule are anti-korea or something. Whatever floats your boat I guess
Not alot of people cared because it apparently hadn't been used in a long time hence people not knowing about it. It not like I'm suddenly against it just because Korea's the one requesting it. I would have felt the same whether it was the US, Canada, Japan, etc requesting it. Lol some people in here are making it seem like all the people who are against reinstating this rule are anti-korea or something. Whatever floats your boat I guess
Korea is ALSO one of those countries that is not a traditional strong skating in the disciplines being discussed. I have no idea why you claim that a skater from the host country will not have achieved the "same results" as a skater from a non-host country.
If they are good enough, they will qualify by right. This proposal means that a host country skater could come last at Worlds, do poorly at Nebelhorn and still take an Olympic spot over skaters who finished ahead of them at those events.
And are you absolutely certain that there are no benefits from levering people into the Olympics based on host qualification?
OK, you have 1 example, but what did it actually do to develop pairs and dance in Japan? 14 years later they got a World Medal in Pairs (by getting a partner from anthoner country) but T/K are not setting the world alight, and since 1998 they have never had more than 2 teams at Nationals, sometimes never even having the event at all. In ice dance Japan did not qualify again until 2010, often they only had 1 or 2 teams at Nationals, the Reeds have finished top 10 in the World maybe once? and there is one other dance team who gets the 4CC but not the Worlds TES minimum. If it truly developed the sport, I would expect a much better return than that after 16 years. If you look at sports outside figure skating, the host spots system has given very little return - I gave examples before from British athletes who had automatic entries to London, China still dominates in the same sports it always did prior to Beijing, not breaking new ground in sports they had no history in, there are no Greek athletes who competed in Athens thanks to this system and then went on to do great things. You cannot build a successful program from the top down, maybe a succesful Olympic appearance will inspire people to take part in a sport (and how successful will these skaters be if they can't qualify through the usual routes?) but it makes no different if the grass roots coaching system is not in place.
It is so completely laughable that people are NOW claiming that the "original rule was unfair" and "I was glad it was removed" and "it was a positive step to get rid of that rule."
No way. Nobody ever cared about this rule when it existed, it's obvious that few people even knew that it existed and applied to every single host country before, and most outside of Korean skating fans didn't care when it was removed.
Thanks for knowing my mind better than I do. I don't like this rule, I never have, in any sport that it applies to, and particularly not when the fields are already so small. The Olympics are a dream for so many athletes, many will only get 1 shot at getting there & so everyone should have the same opportunity, and not jump the queue just because someone from their country managed to put together a successful Olympic bid long before these athletes got anywhere near elite competition. South Korean skaters, and any representing host countries in the future should qualify like everyone else.
If they are good enough, they will qualify by right. This proposal means that a host country skater could come last at Worlds, do poorly at Nebelhorn and still take an Olympic spot over skaters who finished ahead of them at those events.
And are you absolutely certain that there are no benefits from levering people into the Olympics based on host qualification?
OK, you have 1 example, but what did it actually do to develop pairs and dance in Japan? 14 years later they got a World Medal in Pairs (by getting a partner from anthoner country) but T/K are not setting the world alight, and since 1998 they have never had more than 2 teams at Nationals, sometimes never even having the event at all. In ice dance Japan did not qualify again until 2010, often they only had 1 or 2 teams at Nationals, the Reeds have finished top 10 in the World maybe once? and there is one other dance team who gets the 4CC but not the Worlds TES minimum. If it truly developed the sport, I would expect a much better return than that after 16 years. If you look at sports outside figure skating, the host spots system has given very little return - I gave examples before from British athletes who had automatic entries to London, China still dominates in the same sports it always did prior to Beijing, not breaking new ground in sports they had no history in, there are no Greek athletes who competed in Athens thanks to this system and then went on to do great things. You cannot build a successful program from the top down, maybe a succesful Olympic appearance will inspire people to take part in a sport (and how successful will these skaters be if they can't qualify through the usual routes?) but it makes no different if the grass roots coaching system is not in place.
It is so completely laughable that people are NOW claiming that the "original rule was unfair" and "I was glad it was removed" and "it was a positive step to get rid of that rule."
No way. Nobody ever cared about this rule when it existed, it's obvious that few people even knew that it existed and applied to every single host country before, and most outside of Korean skating fans didn't care when it was removed.
Thanks for knowing my mind better than I do. I don't like this rule, I never have, in any sport that it applies to, and particularly not when the fields are already so small. The Olympics are a dream for so many athletes, many will only get 1 shot at getting there & so everyone should have the same opportunity, and not jump the queue just because someone from their country managed to put together a successful Olympic bid long before these athletes got anywhere near elite competition. South Korean skaters, and any representing host countries in the future should qualify like everyone else.
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- Mar 23, 2010
^ It's true that I didn't know about this rule long before but had I know I still would've though it was unfair and would want it to be removed.
Lol some people in here are making it seem like all the people who are against reinstating this rule are anti-korea or something. Whatever floats your boat I guess
oh plz.
every host nation from the past had the luxury to have this rule... again why can the new host like south korea be given the same? south korea is not even a powerhouse in skating like every small country out there.. so i don't know what's the big deal about this.. and we don't even know maybe the south korean ice dance team will do in 3-4 years and who knows they will qualify on their own..
I hope they do, I loved their Free Dance at junior worlds and they have a lot of potential. But if they don't make it on their own, they shouldn't be helped into the event.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Yeah, ideally, they would simply add 1 spot.
It would be unfair though if Korea, say, legitimately qualified and then the field dropped back to 20/24. They should just make it 21/25, saying one spot has to be for the Koreans, so as not to disrupt the total count. If Korea qualifies via Nebelhorn or whatever, the count should still stand at 21/25, as it would have been had they failed to qualify.
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- Jan 2, 2011
Isn't there a Senior Ice Dance team in Korea?
Do you mean Min/Koleto? They haven't been nearly as successful though, and Kim/Minov have aged out of juniors now.
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- Jan 2, 2011
Yes. Considering Min/Koleto finished in the top ten at their first Four Continents, I'd wager it's not in the bag for Kim/Minov just yet. I consider that a fair amount of success, And so does the ISU (10th at Four Continents is worth more ISU points than 6th at JW). I believe they train with Igor Shpilband as well. It will be interesting how things shake out in the upcoming seasons. Both teams have a lot of potential.
Is there a pair team training anywhere?
Of course, many things aren't "in the bag" in figure skating, same goes for Kim/Minov and Min/Koleto. They both seem to be in good hands as far as training/coaching goes. At any rate, I also think they both have some potential. Haven't heard anything about a pair team though. I would like for Korea to fix the training situation at home before anything else though. The facilities are awful.
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- Jan 2, 2011
I find it amazing that even after all of Yuna's success that the environment is still poor. Maybe the federation in Korea is hoping the boost from more participation in 2018 will improve the training situation as much as it will affect public interest.
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- Dec 12, 2013
Couple of thoughts about Olympic politics, which I follow very closely.
Bottom line, anyone who thinks Olympic qualification is about being 'fair' to the 'best in the world,' that's obviously not true. The Olympics (not just figure skating!) has always tried to open spots to smaller countries/federations. Many smaller countries/federations wouldn't even be in the Olympics if it was all about people who had the best scores or World placements. If that were the case, then Russia would send 9 ladies skaters in 2018! A bit part of the Olympics is creating a world community of athletes and frankly, that means that some great athletes from powerful countries don't get to go, in place of weaker skaters from smaller countries/federations.
To me, I see no problem with allowing these spots assuming the competitors meet the minimum TES.
If you review the Winter Olympics for the last 20 years or so, for the most part they've been strong figure skating nations since 1998 (Japan, US, Italy, Canada, Russia). Going forward, we may start to see some Olympics in less powerful skating nations. Look at the bidders for 2022 - Norway, Poland, Kazakhstan, China, and Ukraine (of course Ukraine in all likelihood will not make the shortlist this summer due to their political situation). Of those, only China could really be said to be a current power in figure skating. And they have a weakness in Ice Dance. Having the lure of guaranteed hosts spots, for example, could encourage Kazakhstan (or whoever) to improve their programs in time for 2022 to get people to the minimum TES...
Bottom line, anyone who thinks Olympic qualification is about being 'fair' to the 'best in the world,' that's obviously not true. The Olympics (not just figure skating!) has always tried to open spots to smaller countries/federations. Many smaller countries/federations wouldn't even be in the Olympics if it was all about people who had the best scores or World placements. If that were the case, then Russia would send 9 ladies skaters in 2018! A bit part of the Olympics is creating a world community of athletes and frankly, that means that some great athletes from powerful countries don't get to go, in place of weaker skaters from smaller countries/federations.
To me, I see no problem with allowing these spots assuming the competitors meet the minimum TES.
If you review the Winter Olympics for the last 20 years or so, for the most part they've been strong figure skating nations since 1998 (Japan, US, Italy, Canada, Russia). Going forward, we may start to see some Olympics in less powerful skating nations. Look at the bidders for 2022 - Norway, Poland, Kazakhstan, China, and Ukraine (of course Ukraine in all likelihood will not make the shortlist this summer due to their political situation). Of those, only China could really be said to be a current power in figure skating. And they have a weakness in Ice Dance. Having the lure of guaranteed hosts spots, for example, could encourage Kazakhstan (or whoever) to improve their programs in time for 2022 to get people to the minimum TES...
The best solution is simply to add #21 and #25 if the Koreans don't qualify.
Failing that... it's a tough call, but if it comes down to the wire, I'll still let the Koreans have their spot. It's not good for the athletes, but at the end of the day, you gotta keep the lights on; you gotta draw spectators. It'll suck for whoever is left out, but it's a reasonable perk for the host nation. Unfair, maybe, but not unreasonable. I don't like it in principle but this seems like the practical thing to do. Hosting the Olympics is costly, costly stuff--just ask how it turned out for Montreal.
However, I understand why some people are against the rule... it's not because they're anti-Korean. The problem is that the rule has barely been evoked in the past, so it's relatively harmless. Whereas now, it could take away a spot from, say, an Australian skater who earned it.
Failing that... it's a tough call, but if it comes down to the wire, I'll still let the Koreans have their spot. It's not good for the athletes, but at the end of the day, you gotta keep the lights on; you gotta draw spectators. It'll suck for whoever is left out, but it's a reasonable perk for the host nation. Unfair, maybe, but not unreasonable. I don't like it in principle but this seems like the practical thing to do. Hosting the Olympics is costly, costly stuff--just ask how it turned out for Montreal.
However, I understand why some people are against the rule... it's not because they're anti-Korean. The problem is that the rule has barely been evoked in the past, so it's relatively harmless. Whereas now, it could take away a spot from, say, an Australian skater who earned it.
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- Feb 14, 2014
You took words out of my mouth! :agree:
Even if the skaters in Korea move on later in their careers to better places to train(like Yuna with Orser in Canada, So Youn in US recently), the bad rinks leave a lot of risk for injury when the skaters are younger and can't afford to train overseas right from the beginning. Look at Yuna early on, she had recurring back problems(which is why she stopped doing the loop and biellmann, as everyone knows), and then had a foot injury when she came back in 2013. Apparently 2 world titles and 2 olympic medals aren't enough to convince Korea to build a proper rink.
