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Thread: South Korea will attempt to pass 'host nation' automatic qualification through ISU.

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Good to know! Wow, they were 20th in their first World Juniors and then 6th last year... huge improvement! And they won the junior NRW in ice dance, and were 4th and 5th on the JGP, last year too.
    Isn't there a Senior Ice Dance team in Korea?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperbunny View Post
    Isn't there a Senior Ice Dance team in Korea?
    Do you mean Min/Koleto? They haven't been nearly as successful though, and Kim/Minov have aged out of juniors now.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_parks View Post
    Do you mean Min/Koleto? They haven't been nearly as successful though, and Kim/Minov have aged out of juniors now.
    Yes. Considering Min/Koleto finished in the top ten at their first Four Continents, I'd wager it's not in the bag for Kim/Minov just yet. I consider that a fair amount of success, And so does the ISU (10th at Four Continents is worth more ISU points than 6th at JW). I believe they train with Igor Shpilband as well. It will be interesting how things shake out in the upcoming seasons. Both teams have a lot of potential.

    Is there a pair team training anywhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperbunny View Post
    Yes. Considering Min/Koleto finished in the top ten at their first Four Continents, I'd wager it's not in the bag for Kim/Minov just yet. I consider that a fair amount of success, And so does the ISU (10th at Four Continents is worth more ISU points than 6th at JW). I believe they train with Igor Shpilband as well. It will be interesting how things shake out in the upcoming seasons. Both teams have a lot of potential.

    Is there a pair team training anywhere?
    Of course, many things aren't "in the bag" in figure skating, same goes for Kim/Minov and Min/Koleto. They both seem to be in good hands as far as training/coaching goes. At any rate, I also think they both have some potential. Haven't heard anything about a pair team though. I would like for Korea to fix the training situation at home before anything else though. The facilities are awful.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_parks View Post
    Of course, many things aren't "in the bag" in figure skating, same goes for Kim/Minov and Min/Koleto. They both seem to be in good hands as far as training/coaching goes. At any rate, I also think they both have some potential. Haven't heard anything about a pair team though. I would like for Korea to fix the training situation at home before anything else though. The facilities are awful.
    I find it amazing that even after all of Yuna's success that the environment is still poor. Maybe the federation in Korea is hoping the boost from more participation in 2018 will improve the training situation as much as it will affect public interest.

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    Couple of thoughts about Olympic politics, which I follow very closely.

    Bottom line, anyone who thinks Olympic qualification is about being 'fair' to the 'best in the world,' that's obviously not true. The Olympics (not just figure skating!) has always tried to open spots to smaller countries/federations. Many smaller countries/federations wouldn't even be in the Olympics if it was all about people who had the best scores or World placements. If that were the case, then Russia would send 9 ladies skaters in 2018! A bit part of the Olympics is creating a world community of athletes and frankly, that means that some great athletes from powerful countries don't get to go, in place of weaker skaters from smaller countries/federations.

    To me, I see no problem with allowing these spots assuming the competitors meet the minimum TES.

    If you review the Winter Olympics for the last 20 years or so, for the most part they've been strong figure skating nations since 1998 (Japan, US, Italy, Canada, Russia). Going forward, we may start to see some Olympics in less powerful skating nations. Look at the bidders for 2022 - Norway, Poland, Kazakhstan, China, and Ukraine (of course Ukraine in all likelihood will not make the shortlist this summer due to their political situation). Of those, only China could really be said to be a current power in figure skating. And they have a weakness in Ice Dance. Having the lure of guaranteed hosts spots, for example, could encourage Kazakhstan (or whoever) to improve their programs in time for 2022 to get people to the minimum TES...

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    The best solution is simply to add #21 and #25 if the Koreans don't qualify.

    Failing that... it's a tough call, but if it comes down to the wire, I'll still let the Koreans have their spot. It's not good for the athletes, but at the end of the day, you gotta keep the lights on; you gotta draw spectators. It'll suck for whoever is left out, but it's a reasonable perk for the host nation. Unfair, maybe, but not unreasonable. I don't like it in principle but this seems like the practical thing to do. Hosting the Olympics is costly, costly stuff--just ask how it turned out for Montreal.

    However, I understand why some people are against the rule... it's not because they're anti-Korean. The problem is that the rule has barely been evoked in the past, so it's relatively harmless. Whereas now, it could take away a spot from, say, an Australian skater who earned it.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by breathesgelatin View Post
    If you review the Winter Olympics for the last 20 years or so, for the most part they've been strong figure skating nations since 1998 (Japan, US, Italy, Canada, Russia). Going forward, we may start to see some Olympics in less powerful skating nations. Look at the bidders for 2022 - Norway, Poland, Kazakhstan, China, and Ukraine (of course Ukraine in all likelihood will not make the shortlist this summer due to their political situation). Of those, only China could really be said to be a current power in figure skating. And they have a weakness in Ice Dance. Having the lure of guaranteed hosts spots, for example, could encourage Kazakhstan (or whoever) to improve their programs in time for 2022 to get people to the minimum TES...
    You took words out of my mouth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperbunny View Post
    I find it amazing that even after all of Yuna's success that the environment is still poor. Maybe the federation in Korea is hoping the boost from more participation in 2018 will improve the training situation as much as it will affect public interest.
    Even if the skaters in Korea move on later in their careers to better places to train(like Yuna with Orser in Canada, So Youn in US recently), the bad rinks leave a lot of risk for injury when the skaters are younger and can't afford to train overseas right from the beginning. Look at Yuna early on, she had recurring back problems(which is why she stopped doing the loop and biellmann, as everyone knows), and then had a foot injury when she came back in 2013. Apparently 2 world titles and 2 olympic medals aren't enough to convince Korea to build a proper rink.

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    Can we send some kind of ultimatum to Korea? "We'll give you your darn spots, but you must build some proper rinks and take care of your skaters!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    It is so completely laughable that people are NOW claiming that the "original rule was unfair" and "I was glad it was removed" and "it was a positive step to get rid of that rule."

    No way. Nobody ever cared about this rule when it existed, it's obvious that few people even knew that it existed and applied to every single host country before, and most outside of Korean skating fans didn't care when it was removed.
    How is it laughable that someone says - they weren't aware of the original rule but when they learned about it, they said it isn't/wasn't fair and they are glad it was removed? And from what's been said - it's rarely been applied - if ever, so a fan's knowledge of the rule is highly unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    No, you don't know that it's the "only way". You can't see into the future. The Korean ice dance team could likely qualify on their own if they keep progressing at the rate they have. And who knows? Maybe a Korean pairs team could surprise us.

    So right now, it's just insurance.
    You are right I can't see into the future, but a quick Wikipedia search and South Korea only has 1 Ice Dance team (no nationals were mentioned for Pairs) and their total score was 105 points, the last place finisher at the 2014 Worlds scored 124 points - it's not that far-fetched to say that if this rule is in place it sounds like that will be how their team(s) get into the Olympics not based off performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Whether or not the rule is actually applied shouldn't matter on whether it should exist. So it's okay for Russia to have been protected by the rule since it didn't actually need it, but it's not okay for Korea to be protected by the rule since it may need it? The arguments in this thread are getting worse and worse.
    Well if you read my entire post- I said regardless of what nation it's an unfair rule. And it's a rule that should have been taken out years ago, now it has been and shouldn't be put back into the rules. People are on this board preaching about how they need to make the sport more fair and when they do, they are criticized. And you are right - regardless of whether a rule is actually applied shouldn't matter on whether it should exist - and (As far as I'm concerned) it's rule that shouldn't be on the books.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amei View Post

    You are right I can't see into the future, but a quick Wikipedia search and South Korea only has 1 Ice Dance team (no nationals were mentioned for Pairs) and their total score was 105 points, the last place finisher at the 2014 Worlds scored 124 points - it's not that far-fetched to say that if this rule is in place it sounds like that will be how their team(s) get into the Olympics not based off performance.
    Just for your information:

    The dance team you mentioned, Min/Koleto, was the only senior team at the Korean national. Koleto had switched to ice dance just recently. I'd rather say they had a decent start as a dance team.

    Korea has another dance couple, Kim/Minov, who went to Junior Worlds and got 6th. This team skipped the Korean national. Their score at the Junior Worlds was 133.35.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amei View Post
    You are right I can't see into the future, but a quick Wikipedia search and South Korea only has 1 Ice Dance team (no nationals were mentioned for Pairs) and their total score was 105 points, the last place finisher at the 2014 Worlds scored 124 points - it's not that far-fetched to say that if this rule is in place it sounds like that will be how their team(s) get into the Olympics not based off performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by seabm7 View Post
    Just for your information:

    The dance team you mentioned, Min/Koleto, was the only senior team at the Korean national. Koleto had switched to ice dance just recently. I'd rather say they had a decent start as a dance team.

    Korea has another dance couple, Kim/Minov, who went to Junior Worlds and got 6th. This team skipped the Korean national. Their score at the Junior Worlds was 133.35.
    I've done a little more research on the dance teams.
    At Junior Worlds, Kim/Minov received Level 4 and Level 3 (respectively) for their Quickstep Patterns. At Four Continents, Min/Koleto received Level 4 and Level 3 on their Finnstep, bested only by Hubble/Donahue, who received 4 and 4 (and went on to win the whole event).

    BOTH teams in Short and Free completed all Level 4 Lifts, and Level 4 Spin. Min/Koleto seemed to have had a few Twizzle issues and settled for Level 3 (though they completed Level 4 Twizzles at most other competitions last season that I was able to look up. Nerves?). Otherwise, the only notable difference between the two teams is Footwork Levels and PCS.

    I think with 4 years of exposure and experience, South Korea will have a strong dance team for 2018, regardless of the means it takes to qualify.

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